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ANTIQUE AUTHENTICATOR WANTED

3RDCOASTPAWN3RDCOASTPAWN Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
edited January 2009 in Ask the Experts
im am looking for a certified authenticator to authenticate 3 1850's stage coach shotguns - i have owned these many years and would like to get certified documentaion for them - they were used on the overland stage line and are marked - they have embossed stocks ect - any help would be apprecieated - thirdcoastpawn@aol.com
steve
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    rhmc24rhmc24 Member Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you can spell out what kind of "certification" you need maybe someone here can help you. Doubtful there is anyone with a title you seek. On the practical side, authenticity/value being much the same thing with old guns, what dealers or collectors will offer for a piece will give useful info. If you can post good pix and descriptions here, there are several very knowledgeable members who can help and possibly satisfy your need.
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    perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390 ✭
    edited November -1
    I don't want to throw cold water on your project but unless you have a dated letter from OVER-LAND Stage Lines with the serial Number of your shotguns listed there is NO way to Authenticate your 3 guns unless the maker of the shotguns have records showing shipment by serial number to OVER-LAND Stage Lines. . No mater whom you get to look at them His or Her opinion will be just that an opinion. What you can do is take to a gun show and try to sell to a number of dealers Ask them to set the price and if more then one dealer points out THE SAME area of why they don't think you items are real then you can get a fairly good Idea they may be enhanced to look old . For most people in ANTIQUE firearms they buy the item not the story UNLESS they have DATED PROOF from the time the item was made. There are most likely 99 fake shotguns for every REAL one out there.
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    nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,880 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is generally considered the top antique arms show in the country:

    http://www.baltimoreshow.com/

    If you want to take them there, you will have your best chance doing what Perry Shooter suggests.

    Neal
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    rhmc24rhmc24 Member Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by rhmc24
    If you can spell out what kind of "certification" you need maybe someone here can help you. Doubtful there is anyone with a title you seek. On the practical side, authenticity/value being much the same thing with old guns, what dealers or collectors will offer for a piece will give useful info. If you can post good pix and descriptions here, there are several very knowledgeable members who can help and possibly satisfy your need.


    What perry says is correct. "Anecdotal" info is worthless in valuing a gun - basically same as hearsay evidence. Pix of the guns will determine if they are of a 1850s type. It could be interesting to determine if there was such a Overland Stage Line in the 1850s. If there is hardcopy evidence to back it up you could be on your way to something worthwhile. Three shotguns 1850s or other, without documentation, will be valued on the usual criteria of quality, condition, etc.
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 3RDCOASTPAWN
    im am looking for a certified authenticator to authenticate 3 1850's stage coach shotguns - i have owned these many years and would like to get certified documentaion for them - they were used on the overland stage line and are marked - they have embossed stocks ect - any help would be apprecieated - thirdcoastpawn@aol.com
    steve


    Hello Steve,

    It is extremely doubtful that they are "1850's" vintage guns. If they are break-open double barrel shotguns, they were not made any sooner than the late 1870's. In the 1850's, shotguns were still percussion cap muzzle loaders. My bet is that all three of the guns you have are cartridge guns.

    So, and before you go to all of the trouble of finding & paying someone to tell you exactly what I just stated, you might consider posting pictures of each gun here on the forum. Also, what make & model shotgun are they? If you are not sure, look closely on both sides of the receiver frame, and on the top of the rib separating the barrels. With the Makers name, we can more closely pin down who and when they were made.
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    glabrayglabray Member Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Be VERY careful. There aren't as many fake coach guns as fake percussion Colt revolvers but the odds of one being genuine are very small. For a number of years there has been a guy that has been marking old beat up short barreled SxS shotguns with phony Overland and sometimes Wells Fargo markings. Often his markings make a semi-circle toward the right rear of the butt stock but sometimes he just stamps "OSL" or "WF". Sometimes he even marks the name of a praticular station along the line. Some of the forgeries I have seen have been on British made guns such as C. G. Bonehill.

    Unfortunately, there are very few reliable authentic records that describe the guns purchased by these companies so there isn't a lot of documentation to guide us. I have inspected several marked coach guns for people in the last few years and in my opinion none were original. Several of the guns had patent dates stamped on them that were issued after the Overland Company went out of business.
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