300 WBY - shooting a large group - need help

KPKELLER

I have been toying with new loads for my 300 WBY and have been having problems zeroing my scope. The groups have been about 3 to 4 inches at a 100 yards. I have noticed that as the barrel get hot the point of impact drops. I am only shooting 3 shot groups and waiting till the barrel is cool prior to the next group. please give me some feedback.Thanks,Karl

wiredog

It sounds like a scope problem to me. I could be wrong, any other suggestions out there?

---

I spent all my money on guns, women, and beer. The rest I just wasted.wiredog70@hotmail.com

cpermd

Check your screws,mountsCheck for sock pressure on barrelCheck bedding

ghotie_thumper

Go with cpermd, tighten all scope rings and mounts, careful not to strip them use loctite on all screws, the Weatherby has quite a bit of recoil so everything has to stay tight. Hopefully you have a quality scope sitting on it. If the scope is loose you may want to try black electricians tape under the rings to hold it in place better. Take the action apart from the stock. Check for bedding compound or lack of, if your action is sitting on top of the wood consider having a bedding compound installed. When putting the action back together, tighten the action screws in order, first, forward screw as tight as you can get it without stripping, next, middle very snugly, rear moderately snug. Check to see if the barrel is free floated. A dollar bill should slide between the barrel and the stock. If it isn't consider having a smith float the barrel. Some like to have the first inch or so of the barrel bedded with the action then free float the rest of it. It sometimes helps to apply slight upwards pressure at the point where the barrel leaves the stock. Try using a shim to put pressure at this point. Any one of these steps by themselves might cure your problem. If all this fails check the barrel crown, if it is worn or eroded get it redone. Before doing any of this you should have tried a few different loads in your rifle. Barrels have different twist rates and yours might be designed for light or heavy grain bullets. You might have to have a gunsmith check your bolt face for square, and headspace your chamber. The barrel could be eroded and need replacing. Trigger pull is very important and getting a trigger job or just replacing it might cut the groups size down. Hopefully you will find the solution befor getting to the expensive stuff. It's great when the fix is simple, it's frustrating sometimes though. Good Luck.

Boomerang

Since it is a Weatherby, I am going to trust that the gun is bedded correctly. However, it never hurts to check to see if it is as was suggested. I agree with what was said on scope screw tightness. WARNING, make sure you do not use the wrong Loctite. One of the Loctite products will glue the threads on permanently the other will not. You do not want the permanent glue. Ask a gunsmith which to use, I can not remember the correct color Loctite to tell you.Help us out. What kind of scope, scope bases, and rings do you have on the gun? Did you mount the scope yourself or have it done at a gun shop? BTW, I prefer Leupold mounts and scopes on calibers with this kind of recoil. Lastly, just because your scope may have worked fine on another rifle it may not be able to handle the recoil on this one.Boomer

---

Protect our Constitutional Rights.[This message has been edited by Boomerang (edited 09-23-2001).]

Guns & Glass

#1.What model Weatherby is it?#2.Do the groups consistently move down?#3.Do the groups tighten with different ammo?#4.What ammo(s) are used? Some external suggestions: Do not use tape,etc., to shim/tighten the rings...!!! It can easily distort many scopes, so it won't track right. Also, the tape is compressible and might not stay in shape, so it won't stay tight, and can let the scope twist.Looseness in a symptom.Action screws should be tightened only "snug" If you tighten them as tight as you can, it may easily distort the action stiffness. It is called 'bridging'. It puts undue tension on the action. Even using a long screwdriver vs a short one will change the torque.Action screw torque should be 35-37 ft.lbs., for exactness. But if you use a screwdriver that PROPERLY fits the slot, keep it no longer than 12".Do not remove the front stock pressure bump, ...if there... until all possibilities are checked. When barrels get hot they grow in length more than diameter, especially sporter barrels. The bump is there to put pressure on the barrel as it grows. It changes the external harmonics.Leupold rings/bases are not any stronger than many other quality mfr's. In fact, some of the best models they sell,...they don't even make. But do check them out as the other posts suggested.Loctite: #222 Purple Low strength #242/243 Blue Medium Strength #690 Green Special "wicking" type for assembled parts. All can be used, but not #271/272 Red!!Most important thing about using liquid fastners is....CLEAN ALL screws, and holes with a NON Residue degreaser, wiping the threads clean & dry. Use lots of Q-Tips in the holes. Think of what happens if you paintdirty, and/or wet wood.I'm sure we all will have more to offer after we learn what your answers/comments are to our questions & suggestions.

---

Happy Bullet Holes![This message has been edited by Guns & Glass (edited 09-23-2001).][This message has been edited by Guns & Glass (edited 09-23-2001).]

rick_reno

I'm curious why you say this is a problem in zeroing the scope. The gun might be shooting 3-4 inch groups with your ammo choice. Wby's come with a target from the factory - what does the group on it look like?

Boomerang

Rick makes a good point. KPKELLER - How was your rifle grouping prior to these new loads you are trying?

---

Protect our Constitutional Rights.

moredes

The Loctite you want is blue. Red and you're dead (Propane torch may not loosen it up after red Loctite. A neat trick is soldering gun against the screw head.) Agree with the posts about checking your loads, too. My .308 hates Winchester Silvertips (vertical string of 2.835") and American Eagle (vertical string of 3.028"), but Black Hills is .733", and Federal Gold Medal (aka Match King) is .474" all on the same day. Spread your shots out, about 2 minutes (timed) between each shot, so the barrel doesn't heat up and walk.[This message has been edited by moredes (edited 09-23-2001).]

KPKELLER

Thanks for your imput. I have Leupold rigs & bases. The taget from the factory showed a 3/4 inch group. The factory ammo does shoot a better group however starting with the third shot the point of impact moves lower on the target. The groups I am shooting are almost vertical. I have tried a few different bullets and powders. The barrel is not free floated it has a pressure point near the front of the forend. Should I have the barrel freefloated? Any one have any good suggestions for loads 150 and or 165 grain. Thanks, Karl

rick_reno

If it's exhibiting the same shot placement with factory ammo and handloads - and the problem is vertical stringing - you probably have either a loose or broken scope. If you've tightened everything up and it continues, pull the scope and mounts and either put another on or send that back to Leupold and mention the stringing. Vertical stringing may be caused by irregular powder charges and detonation problems (inconsistent ignition due to variations in primer pocket depth or primerthickness).

dr.dirt

I have two 300 wby mags, one vangaurd, and the other a custom built on an enfield. the trouble you are having is not scope related, its from having a big gun. forget what you know about other guns, this isnt the same. as a barrel heats up, it expands, and unles it is a perfect barrel, it will expand uneven(a little to the right or left). a 300 wby heats up very fast as compared to most other calibers. this is due to using 80+ grains of powder. that is why it strings. every shot makes the barrel a little hotter, and it moves a little more to the same direction- strings.my advice? you could pull your hair out, or do what I did, sight it in for the 1st shot, dead cold every time. remmember, wit a 300 wby, if you hit with the fist shot, you dont need a second!!!....dr.dirt

dr.dirt

I have two 300 wby mags, one vangaurd, and the other a custom built on an enfield. the trouble you are having is not scope related, its from having a big gun. forget what you know about other guns, this isnt the same. as a barrel heats up, it expands, and unles it is a perfect barrel, it will expand uneven(a little to the right or left). a 300 wby heats up very fast as compared to most other calibers. this is due to using 80+ grains of powder. that is why it strings. every shot makes the barrel a little hotter, and it moves a little more to the same direction- strings.my advice? you could pull your hair out, or do what I did, sight it in for the 1st shot, dead cold every time. remmember, wit a 300 wby, if you hit with the fist shot, you dont need a second!!!....dr.dirt

dr.dirt

I have two 300 wby mags, one vangaurd, and the other a custom built on an enfield. the trouble you are having is not scope related, its from having a big gun. forget what you know about other guns, this isnt the same. as a barrel heats up, it expands, and unles it is a perfect barrel, it will expand uneven(a little to the right or left). a 300 wby heats up very fast as compared to most other calibers. this is due to using 80+ grains of powder. that is why it strings. every shot makes the barrel a little hotter, and it moves a little more to the same direction- strings.my advice? you could pull your hair out, or do what I did, sight it in for the 1st shot, dead cold every time. remmember, wit a 300 wby, if you hit with the fist shot, you dont need a second!!!....dr.dirt

dr.dirt

I have two 300 wby mags, one vangaurd, and the other a custom built on an enfield. the trouble you are having is not scope related, its from having a big gun. forget what you know about other guns, this isnt the same. as a barrel heats up, it expands, and unles it is a perfect barrel, it will expand uneven(a little to the right or left). a 300 wby heats up very fast as compared to most other calibers. this is due to using 80+ grains of powder. that is why it strings. every shot makes the barrel a little hotter, and it moves a little more to the same direction- strings.my advice? you could pull your hair out, or do what I did, sight it in for the 1st shot, dead cold every time. remmember, wit a 300 wby, if you hit with the fist shot, you dont need a second!!!....dr.dirt