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.410 shotgun pistol

bobnpatbobnpat Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
edited October 2009 in Ask the Experts
I have been struggling with this issue since 2001. I have a friend that wants to give me his H&R .410 shotgun pistol with 14" barrel. The National Firearms Branch of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and firearms in Wasington DC has no problem with me transfering the registration to my name providing I submit the following: (1.) Proper form #4 (2.) $5.00 fee for tax and transfer fee (3.) Signature of the local chief of police, current photo and fingerprints, all of which I have provided with the exception of the Police chief's signature. The gun was correctly registered during the amnesty period and I have that paperwork. The local chief of police will not meet with me, will not answer my letters, or give me the signature. They will only demand I bring the gun in as "it is a felony to have it in my possesion". The RCW 9.41.190 clearly states "It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun, short barreled shotgon, or short barreled rifle was acquired prior to July 1, 1994 and is possessed in compliance with Federal law". Does anyone have suggestions?

Comments

  • iwannausernameiwannausername Member Posts: 7,131
    edited November -1
    If you form a living trust, you bypass the need for CLEO sign off for NFA items. Oh, and typically the CLEO is the county sherrif, not the city police chief.

    That takes care of things on the federal level. State/county/city may be different, but without knowing location that is hard to know for sure.

    The subguns forums have a list of class 3 dealers by area - I'd see if there is one near you that would be able to help clarify.
  • bobnpatbobnpat Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks...Being right isn't always enough!

    quote:Originally posted by iwannausername
    If you form a living trust, you bypass the need for CLEO sign off for NFA items. Oh, and typically the CLEO is the county sherrif, not the city police chief.

    That takes care of things on the federal level. State/county/city may be different, but without knowing location that is hard to know for sure.

    The subguns forums have a list of class 3 dealers by area - I'd see if there is one near you that would be able to help clarify.
  • duckhunterduckhunter Member Posts: 7,669 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Call the mayors office. Them the state Atty General office.
  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,649 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Your between a rock and a hard place! If the local badgeboy won't play nice, nothing we can do to help you.

    I would be really leery of this living trust business unless you could get a ironclad legal opinion that this would exempt you from all local laws. When your buddy the badgeboy, finds out you have it in your possession, he's not going to be a happy camper.

    I would seriously rethink this matter of the shotgun pistol before going any further. If this has been going on for 8 years without positive resolution, because your local law enforcement folks don't want you have it. You getting possession of it through a legal loop hole would very likely p**s them off big time. Costing you way more money and aggravation, then it's worth in the long run.
  • bobnpatbobnpat Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I believe you are probably very right. This friend is in his late 80's and does not want his children to have the gun for very obvious reasons. I want to have the gun only because it's collectible. It's also very hard for me to accept that a break barrel, single shot, 70+ year old shotgun is so very illegal, but I have no trouble buying a number of styles of assault rifles in potent calibers.I still intend to push it a little. Thanks for the opinion.



    quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
    Your between a rock and a hard place! If the local badgeboy won't play nice, nothing we can do to help you.

    I would be really leery of this living trust business unless you could get a ironclad legal opinion that this would exempt you from all local laws. When your buddy the badgeboy, finds out you have it in your possession, he's not going to be a happy camper.

    I would seriously rethink this matter of the shotgun pistol before going any further. If this has been going on for 8 years without positive resolution, because your local law enforcement folks don't want you have it. You getting possession of it through a legal loop hole would very likely p**s them off big time. Costing you way more money and aggravation, then it's worth in the long run.
  • RobinRobin Member Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    bobnpat,
    I couldn't agree with you more. The H&R Handigun should not be a NFA weapon. Someone should wake up and get it reclassified and put it on the C&R list only. Especially in light of handguns such as the Tarus judge and other models that are considered legal by virtue of having little more than bore scratching classified as "rifling" Several years ago I saw a nice small collection (3) of Marble Gamegetters owned by a 90 year old man that wanted to sell them. He had no idea of what I was talking about when I mentioned NFA registration. He carried one in his truck for years until he had to give up his license. Of course I wouldn't buy something under these circumstances nor would anybody in his right mind. But it is a shame that these old relics can't be included in collections.
  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,649 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If the H & R is factory original and in at least Very Good condition? It would have quite substantial value, being as it was papered during the amnesty.

    Being he doesn't want his kids to get their hands on it. You can act as his agent for selling it on the auction. As long as you don't have it in your physical possession, it's not going to be a problem.

    As you have been in contact with the BATF already about it, your familiar with the transfer and tax stamp requirements.
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,725
    edited November -1
    FWIW- if this is the Handi-gun, it is NOT a short barreled shotgun, it is a PISTOL- classed as an NFA AOW. It never HAD a shoulder stock, and therefore cannot be a shotgun. Do not confuse this with a weapon MADE from a shotgun.

    You can do the trust route and bypass the CLEO, or send a latter to the Chief, cc to City Attorney's Office.
  • rsnyder55rsnyder55 Member Posts: 2,626
    edited November -1
    I'm not sure how your municipalities are setup, but I usually go to the county sheriff for such matters. Is this an option? Does the form say police or local law enforcement?
  • bobnpatbobnpat Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Robin
    bobnpat,
    I couldn't agree with you more. The H&R Handigun should not be a NFA weapon. Someone should wake up and get it reclassified and put it on the C&R list only. Especially in light of handguns such as the Tarus judge and other models that are considered legal by virtue of having little more than bore scratching classified as "rifling" Several years ago I saw a nice small collection (3) of Marble Gamegetters owned by a 90 year old man that wanted to sell them. He had no idea of what I was talking about when I mentioned NFA registration. He carried one in his truck for years until he had to give up his license. Of course I wouldn't buy something under these circumstances nor would anybody in his right mind. But it is a shame that these old relics can't be included in collections.


    The old gentleman that currently owns the gun is terribly parenoid about me drawing attention to him by persuing this with the police department. I told him to simply will the gun to me. That way the gun stays in his possesion until such time it passes on to me. I will then deal with the problems of ownership. Since the gun was correctly registered during the amnesty period, and I have the paperwork, the gun is legal while in his possesion. Thanks for your thoughts.

    Snapshot
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