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ANYONE LOVE THE 7.65 X 53 ARGENTINE?
ENBLOC
Member Posts: 327 ✭✭
Wondered if any of you like this round? Do you have any Rifles in this caliber you hunt with? Just got a nice sized Doe here during early Anterless Hunt with a Sporterized 1891 Argentine Mauser & my own handload. Very first deer taken with the 7.65 x 53![;)]
Comments
Yes I do. I have three rifles chambered for it. Two Argentines, a standard 1909 and a Cavalry carbine 1909. And an FN that got bubba'd with a a 7.65x53 barrel on it. 24". I shoot 42 gr. of 4064 behind a 150 for the carbine and 48 gr. of H4350X behind a 174 spitzer in the long and bubba rifles. Due to the long barrel of the standard 1909 I get 2780 fps out of it. Bubba gets about 2600.
That is plenty of energy to kill a deer with. But, as of yet I haven't hunted with any of my 7.65's. I have .243's, .257's and 7x57's for that.
EDIT:
Photos for the masses.
together
standard
carbine
Distinctive nose of the carbine
Edit II:
The bolt handle on the standard is bent. It should not be. But that's how I got it. And, yes the blond upper handguard on the carbine is the way it's supposed to be. I watched someone sell theirs for less once because the thought it was a replacement.
I'm not going to show the bubba...it might prove I'm really a redneck. Also, since many of you have heard of the 8mm-06. These rifles when sporterized often ended up as 7.65-06's. The chamber was simply cut out to the 30-06 dimensions. I have a 1909 I picked up cheap as a project in that chambering. You could load either .308 or .310-.312 bullets. Accuracy seems to be best with .310-.312 bullets. But .308's will kind of hold it's own for hunting accuracy out to 100 yds. I don't know why there seems to be numerous tolerances for the .303 bullets. But the larger ones work better.
I think it's a great round, like to 7.5 French I think it was the "7.62 Nato" before there was a NATO.
From the Norma.cc website:
7,65 Argentine
Mauser designed this cartridge for use in the 1889 Belgian-pattern rifle. In Europe, this round is designated 7.65x53 Mauser. Actual bullet diameter is supposed to be 0.313 inch but 0.311-inch and 0.312-inch bullets usually give adequate accuracy in most rifles. Argentina, then Bolivia, Columbia, Ecuador, Peru, and Turkey each adopted the 7.65 as their official military round. Before WWII, both Remington and Winchester chambered factory rifles for this round and offered sporting ammunition. (This is why it's important to slug your barrel in order to determine which bullet diameter is best suited to your rifle. -nn-)
Today, Norma is the sole supplier of cases. (This is not true since Hornady makes cases for Graf & Sons. -nn-) Despite such early development, performance of the 7.65 in modern guns is practically indistinguishable from 308 Winchester ballistics. Interestingly, to the untrained eye, these two cases look very similar; however, similar is not identical and these rounds are not interchangeable. Obviously, with top loads, the 7.65 Argentine is useful for the same range of hunting applications, as is the 308 Winchester; however, due to continued use of potentially weaker rifles in this chambering, data listed here is significantly reduced and ballistics are therefore also limited. While original military loads used a 211-grain round-nose bullet, most hunters today will find the 150-and 180-grain pointed bullets a superior choice.
Modelo 1891 Argentine Mauser replaced the .43 caliber Remington Rolling Block rifle as the standard issue Argentine military rifle. Based upon the same Mauser protruding box magazine design as the Belgian 1889 and Turkish 1890 Mauser rifles. The Modelo 1891 had a short service life as it was replaced by the more modern Modelo 1909 Argentine Mauser in 1909. The 1891 is chambered in the 7.65x53mm Mauser cartridge and is a very long, slender, elegant, and beautifully made Mauser rifle.
- from Surplusrifle -
Personally, I happen to like the design and performance of the 1891 Mauser as well as the superb quality of the 1909 Mauser as originally chambered for the 7.65x53 cartridge. Both are carbine length and as such, are VERY loud when fired in the field while hunting. Just another reason to wear hearing protection while in the field. I now have ear plugs that act like the sound suppressing ear muffs but allow me to hear the normal sounds while hunting. Expensive yes but our hearing is not replaceable yet and my hearing is still showing minimal damage according to the Dr.
The short rifles make for great woods hunters due to the overall length and rapid handling with open sights. I wouldn't hesitate to use this cartridge on most game here in the U.S. with the possible exception of Grizzly and maybe the bigger Brown bears. This cartridge is perfectly suitable for elk hunting given short to moderate ranges and proper shot placement with the heavier bullets from experience open sight hunters. I don't recommend scopes for these original rifles if they are indeed original but if they have been sporterized or modified already, scope mounting can solve vision problems encountered by some shooters.
Best.
If you want the original round that made the .308 a johny-come-lately try the 7.5x55 Swiss. It's all the 7.65 is and it is ACCURATE! The 7.65 ain't no slouch but I've yet to see anyone with mine shoot sub MOA five shot groups consistently as good as the Swiss 7.5. I had two and sold one to a guy in Idaho. He took that one to the range and started out shooting some guys dinging 10" steel gongs @ 500! That was with GP-11. He got even better when he went to handloads.
None are my favorites, but all are very nice.
I shoot a 314" 200 gr cast lead rn out of the 3 with shiny bores, but stick to jacketed in the one that is a bit rougher (the 1891 long)- .312 Hornady, either 150 gr or 174. All shoot pretty well.
Probably my favorite thing though is, you can reform cheap (read, free) 30-06 brass for the 7.65 round.