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KX00
He Dog
Member Posts: 51,424 ✭✭✭✭
quote:What is an illegal transfer? What are the penalties for it
an example of an illegal transfer in this case would be if the shipping FFL semt tp a person who was not an FFL. While the shipper does not under regulation have to receive an license copy from the shipping FFL he is asking for one. If the shipper shipped without haveing a copy of the receiving FFLs license he would be in violation. If the transfer FFL gave you the firearm without a 4473 that would be illegal. What I am saying is that your transfer FFL does not, under regulation, have to have a copy of the shipping FFLs licence. He is covering his six by making sure he as more than enough paper for the BATF to look at when the drop by.
As to the penalties, I honestly have not looked closely. Likely and FFL could loose his license, beyond that probably none of us wants to know. Good luck with your transfer!
an example of an illegal transfer in this case would be if the shipping FFL semt tp a person who was not an FFL. While the shipper does not under regulation have to receive an license copy from the shipping FFL he is asking for one. If the shipper shipped without haveing a copy of the receiving FFLs license he would be in violation. If the transfer FFL gave you the firearm without a 4473 that would be illegal. What I am saying is that your transfer FFL does not, under regulation, have to have a copy of the shipping FFLs licence. He is covering his six by making sure he as more than enough paper for the BATF to look at when the drop by.
As to the penalties, I honestly have not looked closely. Likely and FFL could loose his license, beyond that probably none of us wants to know. Good luck with your transfer!
Comments
quote:What is an illegal transfer? What are the penalties for it
an example of an illegal transfer in this case would be if the shipping FFL semt tp a person who was not an FFL. While the shipper does not under regulation have to receive an license copy from the shipping FFL he is asking for one. If the shipper shipped without haveing a copy of the receiving FFLs license he would be in violation. If the transfer FFL gave you the firearm without a 4473 that would be illegal. What I am saying is that your transfer FFL does not, under regulation, have to have a copy of the shipping FFLs licence. He is covering his six by making sure he as more than enough paper for the BATF to look at when the drop by.
As to the penalties, I honestly have not looked closely. Likely and FFL could loose his license, beyond that probably none of us wants to know. Good luck with your transfer!
Thanks for the reply. Just trying to figure out why a guy would go over the top with extra info not required by law.
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
quote:What is an illegal transfer? What are the penalties for it
an example of an illegal transfer in this case would be if the shipping FFL semt tp a person who was not an FFL. While the shipper does not under regulation have to receive an license copy from the shipping FFL he is asking for one. If the shipper shipped without haveing a copy of the receiving FFLs license he would be in violation. If the transfer FFL gave you the firearm without a 4473 that would be illegal. What I am saying is that your transfer FFL does not, under regulation, have to have a copy of the shipping FFLs licence. He is covering his six by making sure he as more than enough paper for the BATF to look at when the drop by.
As to the penalties, I honestly have not looked closely. Likely and FFL could loose his license, beyond that probably none of us wants to know. Good luck with your transfer!
Thanks for the reply. Just trying to figure out why a guy would go over the top with extra info not required by law.
KX500,
A lot of dealers do that today. It usually keeps them in good light with the ATF, and maintains a good working relationship when audited. I have seen shops with a piss poor attitude, and marginal record keeping , get an audit that last for two days. Most of the time the shops that have a good or great system, and take in more info than required, usually get thru their audit in an hour or two, as the agents are confidant they don't have anything to find...and they don't. Your local auditing agent should be on a first name basis with you as an FFL, and you should feel free to call and ask questions, so you don't go down a path you shouldn't have. Its just easier.
Lastly, if you don't like the way your local FFL holders run their affairs and keep records, ger your own FFL. I am sure you will change your mind when you have an audit go bad.
Best
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/newsletter/0805fflnewsletter.pdf
Neal
"Show it to me in black and white, & I'll take your word for it." ---- Neal
You other post got locked, again. Dealer/dealer requires that the transferee provide the other dealer with a copy of his FFL, he cannot simply send the FFL number, he has to send the other dealer a copy (hard, e-mail, or FAX). With dealer/non dealer if the transferee is a dealer he need only provide the seller (non dealer) with his FFL number so that it can been run through the FFL EZ-Check and need not provide a copy of his license to a non licensee. We've covered this twice and yet you keep asking me where in the regulations that an FFL exchange is required from both dealers and I keep right on telling you that only the transferee dealer needs to send his FFL. They say three is the charm so I hope this wraps it up.
Mark, you have changed your answer. In one of my previous posts you said that dealer to dealer requires an FFL exchange. Now it appears that you actually read the REGs and have changed your answer. I have been telling you guys that dealer to dealer does NOT require an exchange. Thank you for confirming my position. I wanted you to show me in black and white where it said dealer to dealer required an FFL transfer, because it doesn't exist. And I knew that once you realized you couldnt find it you would know that I am right.
Thanks [:)]
quote:Originally posted by KX5OO
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
quote:What is an illegal transfer? What are the penalties for it
an example of an illegal transfer in this case would be if the shipping FFL semt tp a person who was not an FFL. While the shipper does not under regulation have to receive an license copy from the shipping FFL he is asking for one. If the shipper shipped without haveing a copy of the receiving FFLs license he would be in violation. If the transfer FFL gave you the firearm without a 4473 that would be illegal. What I am saying is that your transfer FFL does not, under regulation, have to have a copy of the shipping FFLs licence. He is covering his six by making sure he as more than enough paper for the BATF to look at when the drop by.
As to the penalties, I honestly have not looked closely. Likely and FFL could loose his license, beyond that probably none of us wants to know. Good luck with your transfer!
Thanks for the reply. Just trying to figure out why a guy would go over the top with extra info not required by law.
KX500,
A lot of dealers do that today. It usually keeps them in good light with the ATF, and maintains a good working relationship when audited. I have seen shops with a piss poor attitude, and marginal record keeping , get an audit that last for two days. Most of the time the shops that have a good or great system, and take in more info than required, usually get thru their audit in an hour or two, as the agents are confidant they don't have anything to find...and they don't. Your local auditing agent should be on a first name basis with you as an FFL, and you should feel free to call and ask questions, so you don't go down a path you shouldn't have. Its just easier.
Lastly, if you don't like the way your local FFL holders run their affairs and keep records, ger your own FFL. I am sure you will change your mind when you have an audit go bad.
Best
Thanks for the honest answer. A lot of guys have tried to tell me it was regulatory. Does the ATF pressure you in any way to get the "other dealers FFL" or to not deal with a private guy off of gunbroker? EVERY shop i called in Texas will NOT accept/transfer a firearm from a private guy (Gunbroker or Internet). And most Texas dealers told me it was the LAW. Unreal huh? What if you maintain good records and have a good attitude but only log the info required by law, will the ATF still bust your balls during an audit?
As several of the people who have responded to you have mentioned, the vast majority of FFLs will not handle the transaction without licenses beinng exchanged by both parties... right, wrong, or otherwise, it is their choice, and nothing you can say or do is likely to change their minds. Simply live with it. This is the last topic/post on this subject that I will entertain from you... let it lay.