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Oxygen level in reloading-Is more better???
bsthedeerhunter
Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
Has anyone ever used pure oxygen when reloading ammo 270,30-06,300 win mag, 338 win mag etc.? I have always used room air to achieve the results in the speer reloading manuals, and I've NEVER seen any info on the issue. Is this an explosion in the making by using 98% versus 21% on average (normal air)Oxygen? BS
Comments
A cockpit explosion in one of the space vehicles was attributed to oxygen and certain plastics. As a result cockpit materials
were evaluated in the presence of oxygen and changed to less reactive
materials.
Gunpowder- and all industrial/military explosives- carry both a fuel and an oxidizer in themselves. Which is why I can shoot explosives underwater, or inside a hole bored in rock. Smokeless powder is a combination of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. Neither requires gaseous oxygen around it for it to detonate. Black powder is a fuel- charcoal and sulfur- and an oxidizer- sodium nitrate.
However, by adding oxygen, you have dramatically increased likelihood of a fire. Every read the gauges on an oxygen tank? Part that says "Use no oil" ? Due to fire/explosion hazard.
If you are wondering about breathing of fumes from the reloading process at your reloading bench, I don't believe there is any reason to be breathing oxygen while reloading. And oxygen for human inspiration is a FDA regulated drug available only by prescription, even though it is the same oxygen at the same purity levels as industrial grade oxygen you might use in your welding or cutting torch. It is just certified to be to USP standards with a paperwork trail.
First of all, the amount of extra oxygen you could add to an already nearly full cartridge case under normal atmospheric pressure would be negligible. Even if the combustion process required more oxygen (which it does NOT, see below), you simply wouldn't be able to squeeze enough more into an ordinary case to make a difference.
Second and more important, if manufactured and stored correctly, the gunpowder by itself already contains all the chemically stored oxygen the combustion process needs, in perfect stoichiometric ratio. Adding more oxygen beyond that point simply won't help anything.
As an analogy, once your car engine is tuned to the proper air/fuel mixture, you're not going to be able to extract out more power by "leaning" out the air/fuel mixture with more air! Edit: Yes, blowing in more air (eg with a turbocharger) might let you consume fuel faster, but the situation is different with a cartridge since in a cartridge all the fuel is ignited and intended to be consumed at the same time.
Third, storing cases, primers and powder in a pure oxygen environment is just likely to cause them to oxidize (degrade) faster. In other words, not only are you not helping the combustion, you're potentially decreasing the shelf-life or efficacy of your ammo!
Lastly, as you know,, pure oxygen by itself presents a considerable fire hazard as it promotes rapid combustion of flammable materials.
Why on earth would you want to INCREASE the danger of reloading ammunition (and then storing it) by surrounding the loading process with pure O2 gas? Why would you want to decrease the safety of STORED ammo, by filling it with oxygen gas?
Edit: quote:PA Shootist
I don't believe there is any reason to be breathing oxygen while reloading.
Well. . .not apart from the ordinary need to constantly breathe atmospheric oxygen that most organisms have [;)]
But as you say, ordinary ventilation is perfectly fine for reloading ammunition. . .you don't need EXTRA oxygen.
Note that nitroglycerin by itself is actually used as a medical vasodilator (eg for patients with bad coronary artery disease). Sub-microscopic amounts that you might inhale as dust particles during reloading shouldn't be harmful.
It takes energy in the form of heat, primer or spark, to provide that energy .
If pure oxygen is introduced, less energy will have to be introduced
for combustion.
I would expect either sensitization of the powder or spontaneous combustion.
Very dangerous.
As has been said, both types of gunpowder contain the proper amount of oxygen to burn in the absence of air. However, that oxygen is in chemical combination with other elements.
It takes [activation] energy in the form of heat, primer or spark, to provide [release the chemical] energy [from the gunpowder].
If pure oxygen is introduced, less [activation] energy will have to be introduced
for combustion.
I would expect either sensitization of the powder or spontaneous combustion.
Very dangerous.
I've rephrased what you've said about into what I think makes more sense chemistry-wise.
To clarify here, oxygen by itself isn't a fuel. It doesn't provide energy, per se, it facilitates oxidation of an energy source and release of chemical potential energy. In other words, you need the oxygen to release the energy from a separate fuel source.
The heat/spark etc serve as the catalyst to start the chemical reaction going, in this case, the reaction being the burning of the gunpowder and the release of its contained chemical energy.
The purpose of the primer is to provide "activation energy" to rapidly kickstart the powder burning process.
Assuming the primer is in good shape, and the round hasn't been overloaded, the primer should by itself already contain all the energy necessary to ignite all the powder grains.
Once you have enough energy to ignite all the powder grains uniformly, you're done; adding more at that point doesn't help. In fact, adding too much can be bad since "overcooking" the powder can lead to a massive pressure spike.
More oxygen won't help here, for the same reasons already listed above. . .you can't cram very much into a full cartridge even if you wanted to, and the primer already contains all the oxygen it needs to do its job in (hopefully) perfect stoichiometric ratio.
Since the quantity of oxygen inside the case isn't the rate-limiting step in the primer detonation (and in fact isn't a factor AT ALL), adding more oxygen to the case simply won't help.
In short, the primer was specifically designed to do what it needs to do without the assistance of extra case oxygen. You ain't going to "fix" what ain't "broken".
Now, I think what you are saying is that if the gunpowder were sitting in a high-oxygen environment, it might require less catalyst "push off" (or activation energy) to get the powder grains burning.
Again, that doesn't make the primer work any better.
As you say increasing the likelihood that the powder ignites because of some factor OTHER than the primer detonation (eg heat, impact, etc) is NOT a good thing either.
In practice, I think what would happen if you tried filling cartridges in a 100% oxygen environment would be that the extra oxygen would simply oxidize the surface of the powder grains in storage. You'd end up with absolutely no benefit and *slightly* weaker cartridges.
In short, powder and primers have been optimized to work in ordinary cartridges under ordinary atmospheric conditions. Except under abnormal circumstances, adding more oxygen isn't going to increase performance, and has multiple potential drawbacks.
My first impression to this topic wsa "Self, he's pull'en my leg. NO ONE is really reckless enough to try something that dangerous."
Upon reflection, I have come to the conclusion that Mr. bs-hunter has stumbled upon a truly unique idea! IF, & it is a big IF, one could load with pure oxygen in the case without blowing the gun & self up, the oxygen rich atmosphere during combustion would surely excellerate "barrel burning" to a new record.
Fact, heat & oxygen on steel burns steel!
Mechanical engeneers design guns with the strength to withstand "normal" loading. Chemical engineers formulate smokeless powders to react uniformly and at the same time be as non-corrosive as possible. It only takes one DUMB idea to un-do all those years of science & development.
I quote Jeff Foxworthy, "Here's your sign!"
Jim