springfield trapdoor carbine question

tatum888

I have a line on a Springfield Trapdoor Carbine stamped as a Model 1884 on the receiver. Problem is it has a 5-digit serial number in the high 30,000's. According to my meager references on hand a model 1884 should have a much higher serial number.

Is it possible this a a re-arsenaled carbine or is it just a put together parts gun? Any suggestions on where to do some more research, most appreciated.

tatum888

thank you in advance. my first post. New to trapdoor. Just purchased 1873 carbine(I think). Barrel at muzzle has OD of about.73" which is the same as my trapdoor rifle at muzzle. That alone would indicate to me that it is NOT a cut down rifle. It has a 1873 breech block and dated 1873 US Springfield lock. My issue is that it has a buffington rear sight(marked C) with (M90)buffington rear band. It also has the door on the butt plate which my understanding was not on 1873 models. Serial number is 1384xx (1880?) It does have saddle ring and bar. It does have the holes in butt for 3 piece cleaning rod(missing). no cartouches on stock except the "4" toward butt. My best guess - 1880 manufactured carbine, retrofitted with newer carbine stock and buffington sight and band. Comments are welcomed and appreciated!

tatum888

I recently purchased my first Springfield Trapdoor Carbine. It was advertised as a re-blued original and I didn't pay much for it, just wanted a decent shooter.

When I slugged the barrel to determine what size cast bullet to order I discovered that the barrel has six lands and grooves. It slugged to .459. My understanding was that all originals had three lands and grooves. The barrel has what appears to me to be original barrel marking proofs - VP/Eagle Head at the rear next to the breech. The breech block is marked 1884. It has a Buffington rear sight and what appears to me to be the correct pinned front sight. It also has the late style butt plate with storage for cleaning rods.

I am aware that the import reproductions - Pedersoli, Uberti, etc. have six groove barrels. Did they have original proof marks? I can find no import marks on the barrel and the Buffington rear and pinned front don't make sense on them anyway. Did anyone make a six-land/groove barrel for the Springfield Trapdoor Carbine or am I mistaken that the originals were all three land/groove?

swearengine

Bannerman sold a tremendous amount of rifles and carbines that he made up from parts. Still has value as a shooter because it is original, just not perfectly correct. It will never decrease in value unlike a reproduction from Dixie or Cabelas.

gartman

Could be more correct than you think. 1873 dated locks were used up to 1886, and the short wrist-long comb stocks were being used before 1880. You need one of the books dedicated to trapdoors, too many details to cover here.

tatum888

I forgot to mention, the barrel has 3 groove rifling.

Spider7115

Many, many Trapdoor Springfields were refurbished and upgraded at the Springfield Arsenal. Additionally, as stated by swearengine, Francis Bannerman & Sons thousands of assembled rifles & carbines from surplus parts.

Your best source for an opinion is from Al Frasca, renowned expert and author of several books on the Trapdoor Springfield. You can e-mail him directly at afrasca@erinet.com

chiefr

quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
Many, many Trapdoor Springfields were refurbished and upgraded at the Springfield Arsenal. Additionally, as stated by swearengine, Francis Bannerman & Sons thousands of assembled rifles & carbines from surplus parts.

Your best source for an opinion is from Al Frasca, renowned expert and author of several books on the Trapdoor Springfield. You can e-mail him directly at afrasca@erinet.com






+ 1 on Al Frasca.
No need to go anywhere else. He is a great guy to talk to.

gartman

I agree Frasca's books are the gold standard of trapdoor literature but are pricey for a one gun collector. "The 45-70 Springfield" by Poyer & Riesch is a small handy reference guide with more info than most can use. Like reading the phonebook but it is all in there.

gartman

I made a mistake in my first reply. I meant to say 1873 dated breechblocks were used up to 1886, not locks.

Spider7115

quote:Originally posted by gartman
I agree Frasca's books are the gold standard of trapdoor literature but are pricey for a one gun collector. "The 45-70 Springfield" by Poyer & Riesch is a small handy reference guide with more info than most can use. Like reading the phonebook but it is all in there.

I never suggested that he buy the book. It was merely an illustration of one of Al's books. I suggested that he contact Al through e-mail. He's usually pretty quick to respond.

tatum888

Thank you all. I ordered the book written by Poyer & Riesch. I also sent an email off to Mr Frasca. My trigger is also serrated which I think is a later improvement. I am reading all I can. Ordered some black hills ammo company cowboy loads. Can't wait to squeeze some rounds off.

rufe-snow

quote:Originally posted by tatum888
Thank you all. I ordered the book written by Poyer & Riesch. I also sent an email off to Mr Frasca. My trigger is also serrated which I think is a later improvement. I am reading all I can. Ordered some black hills ammo company cowboy loads. Can't wait to squeeze some rounds off.


You should have sluged then barrel prior to ordering the ammo. Back in the 19th Century. The nominal groove diameter of barrels, weren't written in stone.

Years back when I was interested in Black Powder Cartridge Rifles. Had lots of aggravation. Shooting smokeless loads. Unless the bullets were .002 over groove diameter. And very soft lead alloy.

To hard of a lead bullet, alloy wise. And/or undersized bullets. Are a recipe for frustration. Accuracy wise.

charliemeyer007

+1 for the correct size bullets. I once did an Iron Chicken black power shoot with a 50-70 TrapDoor. Rams at 200 M were a piece of cake offhand with that rifle.