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Update **Factory Engraved Model 12 Pigeon Grd

claysclays Member Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭✭
edited August 2017 in Ask the Experts
Gun sold for $6K + 22% premium & tax. I went up to $4500 & decided that was enough. But I did score a Kreigoff Trumpf drilling.

Folks I will be attending a live auction tomorrow in which a Winchester Model 12 Pigeon grade w/factory engraving will be auctioned at no reserve. The gun was made in 1957, and presented to the original owner by Mr Olin himself. After his passing his son sold the gun & the bill of sale is included with the gun.
Any input from the experts on approximate value of this piece.
Please click on the link to view 30 pictures and description of item #214.
Thank you in advance.
http://goldenmemoriesauctions.hibid.com/catalog/106525/saturday--august-5--2017--gun-auction/?cpage=5
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I highly recommend that you contact Pauline Muerrle and ask her to verify it. If it was factory engraved, more than likely it was one of the Kusmit brothers who did it, and she will most likely know which one - http://paulinemuerrle.com/

    If it is a legitimate gun, the value is something north of $10K. It is not possible to predict what the actual selling price will be.
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    charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Awesome workmanship. If you can please post the actual selling price

    added very interesting

    added 2 Thanks for updating. I like drillings, likely a much more shootable item.
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    claysclays Member Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by charliemeyer007
    Awesome workmanship. If you can please post the actual selling price

    Sure will, with any luck, I' be telling you how much I paid for it!
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    claysclays Member Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    I highly recommend that you contact Pauline Muerrle and ask her to verify it. If it was factory engraved, more than likely it was one of the Kusmit brothers who did it, and she will most likely know which one - http://paulinemuerrle.com/

    If it is a legitimate gun, the value is something north of $10K. It is not possible to predict what the actual selling price will be.

    Bert, I sent an e-mail to Pauline & this is the reply.

    Winchester M12 Factory engraved



    LS

    lorenzo santamaria <lsanta123@sbcglobal.net>


    Reply | ??
    Today, 3:47 PM

    Neither checkering or engraving, including pigeon, was done at the factory.


    On Friday, August 4, 2017 2:24 PM, BOB <clays99@msn.com> wrote:

    I was referred to you by Bert from the Gun Broker forums. Can you shed any light on the authenticity of this gun. It will be auctioned tomorrow & I am interested. It is item #214 in the following link. Thank you.
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    TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    Reply | ??
    Today, 3:47 PM

    Neither checkering or engraving, including pigeon, was done at the factory.
    So the the next question would be, who did the work for Mr Olin? That's some beautiful work!
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Frankly, it does not much matter who did the work if it was not Winchester. The story about it being associated with John Olin is now highly suspect, as John Olin would have had the work done in house. As far as many of the serious collectors are concerned, it is simply a well executed Fake, and it is not worth paying a large premium for it.
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    perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390 ✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with BERT not factory engraved will never come close to one that is factory maybe 50 % JUST another nice looking gun
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    $6K is about what it would cost to have that gun engraved today, so it apparently sold at a reasonable price for what it is.
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    SP45SP45 Member Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Clays, I don't know if I spoke with you or not but after seeing the auction listing my wife and I decided to go. I ended up buying 4 guns and some lots at the very end. I bought the first lot of the day and the last. That was a very well run auction and the all the people there were very nice. Thanks for putting it out there.
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    claysclays Member Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by SP45
    Clays, I don't know if I spoke with you or not but after seeing the auction listing my wife and I decided to go. I ended up buying 4 guns and some lots at the very end. I bought the first lot of the day and the last. That was a very well run auction and the all the people there were very nice. Thanks for putting it out there.


    SP45, I am glad that you enjoyed the auction. Greg always makes it entertaining and as you know now, certainly does not waste any time selling. I cannot say that I met you, but I bought the Kreighoff, drilling & one of the Colt presentation models in the wood case. After that I left. Since I am no longer reloading the items in the boxes were of no interest to me. He has these gun auctions twice a year and I always look forward to going.
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