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Steyr AUG vs USR

kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
edited October 2001 in Ask the Experts
I'm looking at an AUG but am wondering if they are worth the difference in price of the USR as far as performance ... is the Pre-Ban AUG really worth $23-2500 more than a Post-Ban USR?The USR is nutered, kind of like the AR-15 only it has the thumbhole stock, no threaded barrel, flash hider, or bayo lug and no other differences I'm aware of ... can anyone enlighten me?
GUN CONTROL: If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com [This message has been edited by kimberkid (edited 10-08-2001).]
If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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Comments

  • gap1916gap1916 Member Posts: 4,977
    edited November -1
    Try a Bushmaster pre ban M17 BullPup. Less than half the cost of the AUG and it works well.
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    GAP 1916,I have one! The main thing I don't like about it is it's weight ... a hair over 10 pounds un-loaded, thats probably one reason the military doesn't use them. Second is the trigger is heavy but at least it's not mushy like the AK Bull-Pup (and other) conversions.Mine is quite accurate using a BSA Red Dot out to 300 yards, no problem keeping it in a 4"-6" group ... haven't tried it beyond that.
    GUN CONTROL: If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    LTS,Thanks for the info, at first I wasn't sure if I could put an AUG stock on it or not, then rembered the forward grip is also a "Banned" thing which with the detachable mag would make a total of 2 ... since I will just be plinking (no commando here) I think I'll go with the USR ...It may be sacrilige, but I'm not above butchering a Pre-Ban barrel ... to get what I want and still be legal anyway ...
    GUN CONTROL: If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • JudgeColtJudgeColt Member Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I do not think anyone buys a pre-ban AUG or a post-ban USR just because it is a "bull-pup" so I do not consider the Bushmaster M17 equivalent. The features that make the pre-ban AUG desirable for me are the removable barrel and accessories, like the heavy barrel, etc.. With the USR, you do not get those features, although the USR will take the high capacity magazines. Barring some unfavorable legislation, the AUG will continue to appreciate at a greater degree than the USR. I remember when people thought $1000 was too much for an AUG. If you can afford it, buy the AUG. The enjoyment of having the real thing will be a great dividend even if the assault weapons law sunsets and they are readily available again in pre-ban form. Remember, we must elect pro-gun candidates in 2002 so we can prevent the assault weapons law from being renewed, or worse yet, expanded, when the sunset date comes up in 2004. Do not waste any votes on third party candidates no matter how attractive they may seem.
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    JudgeColtThanks for the info! And your correct, I'm not buying it just because it is a Bull-pup, I've had several AK's (real & kit)and never satisfied with them, and the Bushmaster M17S is ok ... but I want the AUG or USR because its THE BullPup! And if I decide I dont like it, its a sellers market.I was aware that the barrel isn't removable unless you get a USR barrel quick release push pin button & new grub screw which allows you to take the barrel off at a push of a button just like the AUG (from what I understand).The sunset date is another thing which has weighed hevily on my decision ... if it is not renewed the pre-ban weapon prices will take a drastic plunge ... if that happens it will be the USR that will be rare as the Pre-Ban version will again be avaiable (and who will want the USR?)... if it is renewed the USR prices will still appreicate but as you stated the AUG's will appreicate even more.Needles to say I'm torn ... after all when was the last time major gun laws were repealed or allowed to fade away ... Then there is the other thing, even though I can "Afford" the AUG, I may find myself in a situation like Rembrant and remodling the kitchen or some such thing ... then my $5000 AUG ends up costing me $8-9,000+ Or worse! She could decide she wants a new Blazer
    GUN CONTROL: If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • JudgeColtJudgeColt Member Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have been thinking about the possible effect of the sunsetting of the 1994 assault weapons law on the AUG and other imported assault weapons. If the law does happen to sunset, which I fear will never happen (vote for pro-gun Republicans no matter how attractive a third party candidate may be), that would free up domestic production of high capacity magazines (the most important aspect of the law in my opinion) and rifles and pistols banned by the original 1994 law. However, that would not alter state laws and probably would not alter the Bush 41 1989 import ban, which is the one that caught the AUG in the first place. (Can anyone tell me whether the 1989 import ban was incorporated in the 1994 assault weapons law, or left to stand as separate law? I think it was, but I cannot remember for sure.)If the import ban is not lifted, or does not expire, the AUG would not be affected and no new AUGs would become available, and your value would be secure. (Is this really about value? Sure, it is important, but that is really just what we tell our spouses to justify spending all this money. We just want the guns no matter what! The value thing is secondary.)If the import ban were lifted, and new current production AUGs were to be imported again, I doubt that they would be exactly the same as the pre-1989 AUGs and that would help hold up the value of the older guns. The new guns also would probably be higher priced than the USR anyway, which would also help hold up the value of the pre-1989 AUG.Either way, if you buy an AUG now, you have a real AUG that you will have enjoyed while waiting for all this to happen, and your wife will have a nice new kitchen that she can enjoy while she spends the money she got from selling all your guns after she outlives you! Such a deal!Buy the AUG!
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  • AntiqueDrAntiqueDr Member Posts: 691 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I carried the AUG's back in the 80's, with a tagged price of (I think) $1099. I thought I would die with them. Finally hosed all three at $899 apiece and said "Good riddance!"(sigh)
    We buy, sell and trade quality guns and scopes!Ask us about Shepherd Scopes!Visit our website at www.ApaxEnterprises.com
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Judge,Thanks for your advise, even though I didn't take it! I ran accross auction #2166947 and ended up its new owner ... it was another $400 less than the one I was originally looking at.Since I can't own a "Real" AUG (select fire) in Kansas anyway I decided to save the money ... or rather to purchase the new Kimber Eclipse as well and still save some money for the next time the itch gets me. Maybe I'm diffrent than most as value does play an important roll in all my purchases wheather it be rifles or refridgerators. If the sun does set on the Brady Ban, and take the 89 ban with it I really dont want to be sitting with a $5-6000 rifle that is now worth $2-2500 ... I'd much rather have the $2200 rifle that is worth $1000 and could "up-grade" with an AUG stock & barrel ... after all its still a Steyr and the same basic weapon, just as the Colt Match Target AR-15 is to a Blue or Green Lable. On the other hand a $5-6000 rifle is a very limited market and I don't have any desire to be that elite ... after all, I buy Kimbers instead of Colts!As much as I hope the sun does set on the Brady Ban, in reality I dont see it happening, but rest assured I'll only be voting the pro-gun Republican canidate, which hopefully will be GW again (as well as pro-gun republican in all other elections)
    GUN CONTROL: If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As previously stated I recently purchased a Steyr USR, why is it illegal to use an (non-thumbhole) AUG stock? It would still be a USR ... not an AUG, it has no threaded barrel, no folding or telescopic stock, no bayonet mount, no flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor and no grenade launcher ... the pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon would be the only banned feature I can find about it.In reading the Btaf regs I see where it is illegal to attach a forward grip to a Pistol such as the HK SP-89, but nothing reguarding rifles/long guns.Any help?
    GUN CONTROL: If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • byron2112byron2112 Member Posts: 31 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I thought the ability to accept Hi-cap mags counted as on of the two features that makes these type rifles restricted.The others you already mentioned.
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I copied this from the BATF website ... maybe I'm reading it wrong or missing something, but the Colt AR-15 has ability to accept a detachable magazine and a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, the use of an AUG stock shouldn't make it any more of an "Assult Weapon" than the Post-Ban AR-15 or Bushmasters M17S for that matter.SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS and LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES under Title 18, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 44 as amended by Public Law 103-322 The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994(enacted September 13, 1994) ? 921(a)(30) The term 'semiautomatic assault weapon' means: (A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as - (i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC70); (iv) Colt AR-15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC; (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12; (vii) Steyr AUG (viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC DC-9, and TEC-22; and (ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; (B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of - (i) a folding or telescopic stock; (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (iii) a bayonet mount; (iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and (v) a grenade launcher; C & D goes on to describe pistols and semiautomatic shotguns ... nothing about "Pump Shotguns", so they aren't included in the ban ... I guess Pump Shotguns aren't threatning enough ... personally if I were an intruder, just hearing the rack of a pump shotgun would make me want to find the quickest way out ... that would sound pretty "threatning" to me!
    GUN CONTROL: If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Howdy dano!If you cant answer this little question (you bein' a LEO an all) I'll be really disapointed ... after all, you should know the LAW!
    GUN CONTROL: If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • JudgeColtJudgeColt Member Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    How is a USR stock different from an AUG stock? They look the same to me, except for the color. If they are the same, I do not think it would make any legal difference to exchange them, as a color change would be the only difference. Is the color change all you are seeking? What do you expect to gain by putting an AUG stock on a USR? AUG stocks cost $300-$400 or more, so already you are spending more on your USR that you would not be spending if you had bought the AUG in the first place!
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    JudgeColt,The USR Stock has a partition between the magwell and the back of the grip with a "thumbhole" in it, the AUG doesn't. As to the color, actually I prefer the Gray, I dont care for the Green, the Tan or Sand color kind is has a yellowish which I dont like either and with the Black there is no contrast between the Gun & the Stock.I've "heard" that switching the stocks is illegal, in fact LTS mentioned it in his post (which I believe he deleted, cause its gone) I'm just wondering "WHY" its illegal ... part of my nature I guess. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the "Sporting Use" they were imported under and Import as opposed to American Made, but I cant find anything in the BTAF regs about it. I'm thinking the USR was banned in '97 as part of Klintons "Executive Order" that stopped the import of the "Thumbhole" AK's as well ... Hummmm ...Also as noted by LTS the USR is the next generation of the AUG, there were only 2500 Black AUG's imported and 6000 Green AUG's through '89 and 3000 Grey USR's in '97 only.
    GUN CONTROL: If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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