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Long Range shooting
Maalox
Member Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭
If you were starting out long range (500 yards)shooting what would you use?
Gun? Caliber? Scope?
Gun? Caliber? Scope?
Regards, MAALOX
Comments
I then went to the 550 yd range and was able to put 8 out of 15 on the target with one in the black. Since this was my first attempt at shooting anything over 100 yds I was pleased with the results. Problem is my thoughts since Friday have only been with ways to improve my long range shooting. Not only at the 550 yd range but I want to shoot at the 1000 yd range.
So after that background my question...
What would be appropriate calibers and rifles for target shooting at 1000 yards.
Also any pointers are appreciated
shells will be loaded with 190grn match loads.
There are so many factors that have to be dealt with at that range the 50 is really the best way to go. I have shot 500 yards with iron sights with an M-14 (.308), but it involved extensive calculations. The 50's cost a small fortune, as does their ammo, but it is really the only way to go at1K yards.
If you are serious about shooting 1000 yards, and want to do it well, an equally important piece of the puzzle will be the scope and mounts. The minimum scope will be a Burris Black Diamond, and the better ones will be IOR, NightForce, USO, and S&B...all in the order of increasing price from $800.00 to more than $3k.
I am sure Sandwarrior, JustC, perryshooter, and Nononsense will all chime in on this one too.
Best
The best rifle out of the box to start the 1000 yard shooting with is undoubtedly the Savafe F-Class production rifle. It is factory range ready, and comes in the chamberings you will need too...the 308 Winchester, and my choice the 6.5-284. Those 6.5mm bullets have great ballistic coefficients, and buck the wind competitively with the 30 caliber bullets. The recoil will be minimal also. The rifle you do not need is a 50 cal Barrett. You will start flinching, and get severe recoil headaches...when you are able to afford to shoot it.
If you are serious about shooting 1000 yards, and want to do it well, an equally important piece of the puzzle will be the scope and mounts. The minimum scope will be a Burris Black Diamond, and the better ones will be IOR, NightForce, USO, and S&B...all in the order of increasing price from $800.00 to more than $3k.
I am sure Sandwarrior, JustC, perryshooter, and Nononsense will all chime in on this one too.
Best
Thanks all
Scope will certainly be a big part of the equation. I have the Burris Sig Select in 4-16 and was using that this weekend.
Out to 500 yards a scoped AR should be no problem. I have got first time rifle shooters hitting 500-600 yard targets with my Target AR in under 40 rounds. Out past 500 yards the game does change.
For "standard" calibers .308, 300 WM, .338, ect. There are lots of less common, out side of match shooters, calibers that work great since that is exactly what they were made for.
GOOD glass is a huge key to doing this.
I am going to be doing some more long range shooting here very soon and teaching a friend to do it too. I still have a big learning curve but it will be fun for sure and that is why I am doing it. I am going to be trying my .243, .308 and .300 WM.
Partisan why do you THINK the .50 is best for 1000 yards? How come very few if any match shooters use them?
"Problem is my thoughts since Friday have only been with ways to improve my long range shooting."
Practice, Practice and still more Practice.
Most of us tend to concentrate on the obvious equipment and cartridges when it comes to discussing long range target shooting. It's easy and it's tangible. But there's a lot more to shooting long range than just the rifle and a cartridge.
Your .223 cartridge will keep a bullet supersonic to 1,000 yards IF you shoot high BC, long range target bullets loaded to the maximum pressure for the system and loaded single shot because the OAL will be longer than the magazine allows. Of course your barrel will need a 1:8" twist at the very least and could use a 1:7" for the very longest of the bullets. We use this combination with longer barrels to gain a little more advantage but we still make it to 1,000 yards with more than acceptable accuracy. Wind is the the greatest enemy of the .22 caliber bullets.
Learning to read the wind and the range conditions is paramount to gaining expertise at the longer ranges. Failure to pay close attention to both will cost you points or group size in competition. I suggest getting someone with experience to work with you at these very earliest stages before you develop any bad habits that can't be fixed with proper training. Short range practice and concentration on the aspects of proper form, wind reading and visualization will do more good than buying a new rifle and trying to learn to reload the high BC bullets for the near future.
While mastering some of the necessary basics, it couldn't hurt to begin the consideration of the rifle and cartridge you might like to use for an extended period of time. These rifles are more expensive than the average hunting rifles and therefore need more consideration. Along with rifle goes the job of finding the right scope for the exercise. These scopes often will start at $1000.00 and go up significantly from there. The best glass is really required and skimping will cost you points and give you a headache besides. These scopes also need to have a large range of adjustments in order to shoot at the longer distances. Plan ahead and put money away for both the rifle and the glass.
Most of us who shoot long range, reload since it's nearly impossible to find Match grade ammunition for competition. There are some cartridges factory loaded that are suitable for competition but they are few and far between, let alone expensive. If you don't reload, plan to get started in order to allow time to practice and build up your skills for creating long range ammunition.
Do you really have to go through all of this just to shoot 1,000 yards? Nope.
I'm shooting an 18" barrel chambered for the standard .308 Win. cartridge for some testing required for a contract. I'm shooting Federal Gold Medal Match and I can get to 1,000 yards easily. But the difference will be the glass. The scope I have mounted right now cost $2500.00 not including the rail and rings. You can scale back on some of the costs but some will be unavoidable.
If you have specific questions please post them or contact me through the e-mail system if you'd like.
best.
I've seen folks shooting 45-70 and other slow moving cartridges at 1000 yards with pretty impressive results. Personally, I'd say go with a 308, chronograph your loads for velocity and then study the trajectory tables. You will find that wind and other factors will weigh heavily on shooting accurately at those ranges. If you go with a scope you will need one that combined with a proper mount that gives you sufficient elevation adjustment
Jim
There were lots of .308s and an assortment of smaller calibers shooting high BC bullets, 6, 6.5, and 7mm, at higher velocity. I saw NO .300 Magnum nor was there any good old '06s.
NRA F class allows a maximum of .35 caliber but the 10 kg weight limit and the no muzzle brake rule pretty much knock the .338 Lapua out of contention. That and the .408 and .50 cal are specialty items that call for a lot of money, a lot of expertise, and a lot of acreage.
The 6.5x284 is close to an ideal round for a man-portable 1000 yard rifle, but you will pay for it with a new barrel about every 1000 shots.
I have shot a .223 with fast twist barrel and high BC bullets at 1000 yards but while the ballistics charts say it should shoot right along with a .308, it does not quite make it in the field. It is a fine little 600 yard gun, though; the light recoil and accuracy make it a pleasure to shoot at the mid-ranges.
I would go with a .308 and be prepared to fight the winds. Trajectory doesn't matter much, anything past about 300 yards, you must adjust or hold for the range with about any caliber.
As everybody agrees, you need a GOOD scope. You need a good scope mount, too. Few scopes have enough range of adjustment to reach 1000 yards on a conventional mount. Most LR shooters use tapered mounts with 20-30 MOA of elevation built in.
"Problem is my thoughts since Friday have only been with ways to improve my long range shooting."
That's not a problem! That means you like doing this...and will continue to do this.[:D]
Seriously, There are a lot of options out there. But, where I start looking is what exactly is going down range. The bullet. So, look for the most efficient bullet you can get your hands on. As nn said this will require reloading. If you have no plans to reload then you are stuck with what gets made. That is .223 (need tight twist Min 1-9) .243/6mm, .257 Rob/25-06, .260 Rem, 6.5-284. here's my favorite off the shelf solution the 7mm-08, 7x57, .280, 7 Rem Mag, 7 WSM, .308, 7.5x55 Swiss(great round and relatively cheap ammo for now) 30-06, 300 WM (or any mag), 7.65 arg. (foreign 174 gr. FMJ's have excellent BC's) 8mm (Yugo M75 sniper ammo is excellent and available) and .338 Fed or mag. Most any of those rounds can get you to 1k with the bullet still supersonic. Supersonic is important because when the bullet slows down to the transonic range it gets disrupted. How much depends on the bullet and the rate it's spinning. This is an area you will need to do some homework in. Not all of the calibers listed will get you to 1k.
There aren't always rifles ready to shoot the bullets required to get to 1k. Example is the .223 with a 1-9" twist. It will get you to 1k with the 68/69 gr. match bullet Remington doesn't make that twist standard, Savage does. Ammo made by black hills. The high BC bullets in 6mm either require a 1-9" or 1-8" twist. Most 6mm cal rifles I come across in the store are 1-10" That'll stabilize up to a 100 gr. Spitzer. .25 cal's are mostly 1-10 and you can find 117 hpbt ammo for them. .260 has match ammo made by Black hills as the 6.5-284. The 7mm-08 will pretty much get anything to 1k....but it's hard to find a heavy barreled rifle in that cal. There's a Savage Tactical on the auction for a 7 rem mag. That'll definitely get you there. 7 WSM's are found in many of the heavy barreled styles, Any ammo will get you to 1k.
Anyhow, look around for any of these options. Just know you want a heavy barrel. Long if you can get it. With a twist tight enough to take a heavy for caliber bullet. In the meantime, keep practicing.