"forging marks" revisited

metalsmitty45

A while back I showed a couple vintage 1894/1892 receivers to a friend that works for a well known forging company .They have distinct flowing marks that people refer to as forging marks.
He replied those are the flowing grain lines of a coarse grained steel that over time oxidation and deterioration has revieled them.

Examing a broken bolt recently showed very coarse internal structure.
Here is a couple cross sections of forged parts acid etched to show grain.Any thoughts from the experts?

perry shooter

very interesting Thanks

charliemeyer007

Mass production metallurgy and heat treatment, ok after the 30's. Somewhat hit or miss in the 10's and 20's.

metalsmitty45

I think mostly due to lack of refinements
To the steel .Coarse grain steel is usually easier to machine in mass production.Forging during that era should have been good.When new and freshly polished and blued theses lines are not seen.I have a restoration 1892 that after carbona bluing the lines show up as darker streaks .There is a early 1894 rifle on GunBroker now that was factory refinished and shows the darker streaks.

XXCross

Forging lines wreck havoc on your nerves,but damage little else.

metalsmitty45

Mainly what I'm getting at is calling these lines forging lines is not exactly correct because they are not caused by the forging process. Forging only contibutes to there orientation or flow and that's based on the open or closed dies that are used to make the rough shape.The steel is not layered ,Winchester would have used a solid ingot of steel placed on a forging hammer or press and hammered or squeezed the ingot into more than likely an open die technique to make the rough receiver.
Some collectors have said these lines were folds of metal which I do not believe.

Forging receivers would not have required layering of the steel , just simply a grain orientated rough shape for added strength,same as today's techniques other than today closed dies are used .

metalsmitty45

some pics of one receiver I have thats good representative.

spirits

At least it is just forging lines in the metal not voids (i.e., cavities in the metal). Some forging voids even show up at the surface where the metal gets folded.