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38 special vs. the 38 super
toad67
Member Posts: 13,019 ✭✭✭✭
I just got the chance to shoot a S&W model 52 and absolutely loved it. How do the 38 spl. wadcutters shot out of the 52 compare to a 38 super, say in a 1911? I need something like one of these[:p] Thanks.
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[^]1911.
EDIT long before the 32 S&W long target guns there were a number of custom pistol smiths that modified Colt 38 supers so they could shoot 38 special I have 2 such pistols one built by John Giles in the early 1960's and one built by Al Dinan the reason they converted to 38 special was because the 38 super at that time did not shoot small groups compared to both 45acp and 38 Special again in the last 10 years they have changed the way 38 super barrels have been made but most people agree they still shoot larger groups[:(]than 9MM
modified 1911 pistols
[:(]EDIT IIThe 38AMU "army marksmanship unit" as well as
the 38MTU "Marksmanship training unit" were other attempts to come . up with a viable centerfire pistol
to shoot in Bulls Eye matches . I have factory barrels marked in both ways they were Rimless 38 specials in a way also have some factory ammo none of these experiments showed much promise the best
that ever came up was pistols built by Jerry Keffer who built 2 9MM match pistols for national championship PPC matches that set a record
by a landslide of points fired by 2 Richmond Va. policemen as to the high maintenance on a model 52 post by 62 FUELIE covered most of that issue. There is a great book by BILL Jenkins US MILITARY and MARKSMANSHIP Automatic Pistols that talks about Target pistols
The 38 Wadcuters are lightly loaded for target shooting. The high velocity Supers, will rock you.
The .38 Super was designed to fight the "Automobile Bandits", i.e. Bonnie & Clyde, Dillinger, etc. It was an up-loaded version of the .38 ACP (basically the first +p loading, before the term was invented). It headspaces on a small segment of its semi-rim in a cut into the barrel hood. Today most .38 Supers are set up to headspace on the case mouth like the .45 ACP. It was designed for power in a fire fight with adequate accuracy for a gunfight not for precision target work.
There is also an advantage of shooting a 45 cal vs a 38 spl or 32 long, and that's SIZE! A near hit with a 45 on a scoring ring is a miss with the other two.
As Karl says "Praise the Hardball Gun!"
I just got the chance to shoot a S&W model 52 and absolutely loved it. How do the 38 spl. wadcutters shot out of the 52 compare to a 38 super, say in a 1911? I need something like one of these[:p] Thanks.
They're not comparable at all.
38 wadcutters are special light target loads; its effectively a "target only" load (though I guess you could use it for light-duty hunting on small game) .38 super is more like a 9mm +P and its much more of a serious "service" round.
As already mentioned Smith 52 is sort of a "legacy" gun from a time of target shooting that's mostly gone now. I've shot this. . .its a very nice pistol, but these won't run most off the shelf ammo, capacity is limited (IIRC, they only hold five rounds) and so there is a bit of hassle that goes with them.
Now almost all serious competitors use .45s for the "bigger hole". There are a lot of model 52 guns out there and you can probably find one if you're really interested, but Smith discontinued models 52 over 20 years ago.
Incidentally, velocity of 38s from the Smith 52 is slow enough that "followthrough" becomes an issue, bullet stays in barrel longer, causing more of a chance of misalignment. You have to hold on target and AFTER you pull the trigger. In fact muzzle velocity is so low that under the right conditions of light and distance, you may be able to (barely) see the bullets in flight!
Why is a 750 fps wadcutter in a Model 52 different from a 750 fps wadcutter in a Clark Conversion, K38, or for that matter, from a .45?
Don't they all require follow through?
Why is a 750 fps wadcutter in a Model 52 different from a 750 fps wadcutter in a Clark Conversion, K38, or for that matter, from a .45?
Don't they all require follow through?
2.8 grains of bullseye under a 148 grain bullet gets you to only about 700 fps, and that's the velocity many bullseye shooters go for. Most of the commercial wadcutter/target loads are loaded to that spec (eg Federal Bullseye).
But yes, they all need follow-though.
Don't know if the model 52 really needs more than the others, or just the long slide throw means a longer cycle time, which makes it FEEL like it needs more. Might be particular barrel twist on these favors slower rounds, making this more important.