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Win Model 1895 National Guard of Colorado????
bkmach1
Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
Can someone help out with info on this particular model? It's a 28" barrel, .30 Gov't., Model 1895 marked "National Guard of Colorado". I might have an opportunity of purchasing one and wanted to know more about it along with what value range these go for.
I will state I HAVE NOT yet seen or handled this gun so don't know the actual condition. I hope to in the next few days.
Thanks in advance for all assistance.
Brad
I will state I HAVE NOT yet seen or handled this gun so don't know the actual condition. I hope to in the next few days.
Thanks in advance for all assistance.
Brad
Comments
Is the rifle an original Winchester Model 1895 or a modern reproduction?
Winchester 1895's were the only commercial rifle available in .30-40 Krag when we started the Spanish-American War which if you include the resulting Phillipine Insurrection runs about 10 years and the entire American military revolved through it so just like Iraq, WWII, Korea, etc. this is a conflict where National Guard units saw combat and buying Winchester 1895's instead of waiting for years for the federal armories to make enough of the Krag Jorgenson bolt action rifles was a common solution. So the rifle may well have seen a lot more activity than weekend drills on an armory rack. The several hundred thousand Krags made for the war and Phillipines became Army National Guard rifles up through the 1930's when WWI surplus Springfields and Enfields replaced them as the Army slowly upgraded to the Garand. I don't think there's a Winchester commemorative for the Colorado National Guard-that'd be a really tiny target market even for Winchesters' absurd variety of commemoratives. My Win 95 .30-40 carbine made in 1896 sure has a lot more wear than hunting would earn it as does my 1898 mfr Krag. They're a great rifle (it's a John Browning design, 'nuf said?) Price'd range $850 (bad shape, eager seller) to several grand (great shape, seller who doesn't read the financial news for years.)
There are a few things that need clarification in your reply above...
The Winchester Model 1895 was not the first commercial (sporting) rifle made for the 30 U.S. (30/40 Krag) cartridge... that distinction belongs solely to the Winchester Model 1885 (high-wall) Rifle. By the time the Spanish American War began in April of 1898, Winchester had been manufacturing and offering the Model 1885 in 30 U.S. for nearly 5-years.
Winchester delivered exactly 10,000 Model 1895s to the U.S. Army, and of that number, just 100 of them saw action in the Phillipines. The remaining 9,900 were disposed of to various organizations, including the DCM starting in 1922. The only large (several hundred thousand) order of Model 1895s delivered to any contract was the 293,816 Muskets chambered for the 7.62x54mmR cartridge that were sold to the Prussian government in 1915 & 1916.
There are a few things that need clarification in your reply above...
The Winchester Model 1895 was not the first commercial (sporting) rifle made for the 30 U.S. (30/40 Krag) cartridge... that distinction belongs solely to the Winchester Model 1885 (high-wall) Rifle. By the time the Spanish American War began in April of 1898, Winchester had been manufacturing and offering the Model 1885 in 30 U.S. for nearly 5-years.
Winchester delivered exactly 10,000 Model 1895s to the U.S. Army, and of that number, just 100 of them saw action in the Phillipines. The remaining 9,900 were disposed of to various organizations, including the DCM starting in 1922. The only large (several hundred thousand) order of Model 1895s delivered to any contract was the 293,816 Muskets chambered for the 7.62x54mmR cartridge that were sold to the Prussian government in 1915 & 1916.
Russia not Prussia, Burt. The Prussians were the guys with the 8mm Mauser Bolt Actions coming out of their ears, they didn't need any lever action Winnies.
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
There are a few things that need clarification in your reply above...
The Winchester Model 1895 was not the first commercial (sporting) rifle made for the 30 U.S. (30/40 Krag) cartridge... that distinction belongs solely to the Winchester Model 1885 (high-wall) Rifle. By the time the Spanish American War began in April of 1898, Winchester had been manufacturing and offering the Model 1885 in 30 U.S. for nearly 5-years.
Winchester delivered exactly 10,000 Model 1895s to the U.S. Army, and of that number, just 100 of them saw action in the Phillipines. The remaining 9,900 were disposed of to various organizations, including the DCM starting in 1922. The only large (several hundred thousand) order of Model 1895s delivered to any contract was the 293,816 Muskets chambered for the 7.62x54mmR cartridge that were sold to the Prussian government in 1915 & 1916.
Russia not Prussia, Burt. The Prussians were the guys with the 8mm Mauser Bolt Actions coming out of their ears, they didn't need any lever action Winnies.
Correct you are... it was the Imperial Russian Government.
I haven't seen the vast factory archives of Winchesters that repose in the basements of the Buffalo Bill Historical Center, but if they're like other manufacturer records they show where guns were originally shipped. Not where those military units subsequently served, that'd be Army records. So only a hundred Win 95's of 10,000 bought in two wars that drew far beyond the small Regular Army into National Guard and new recruits quickly outstripping arsenal production (or there wouldn't be so many eyewitness accounts referring to all but the luckiest Regulars being forced to rely on Springfield trapdoor rifles in Cuba, except for those who bought their own Win 95's just like the many Henry-armed men in the Civil War despite just 1,700 being officially purchased. There's 69,000 U.S. Soldiers in the Phillipines by Dec. 1900, 42,000 in 1899, along with the Cuban Expeditionary Force and the many more thousands still stranded in Florida or training camps around the country...10,000 modern rifles going into stateside arsenals never to emerge for this sudden and vast need seems incredible to me. I appreciate the factory shipping records, but eyewitness accounts by soldiers there indicate Win 95's weren't restricted to a handful. An 1885 single shot Winchester would still be considerably superior to an 1884 Springfield trapdoor in .45-70 blackpowder, but that's a rifle I never did run across mention of use in Cuba or the Phillipines (or Guam, or Puerto Rico for other simultaneous invasions.)
I have personally seen and researched the records at Cody (I work at the CFM as a research volunteer several weeks each year), and the records most definitely do not not list where the guns were shipped. Winchester (unlike Colt and many other manufactures of the period) did not record where the guns were shipped... only when they were received in the warehouse, and when they shipped... not where they went.
No where did I mention or state that the Model 1885 was ever used in Cuba (or any other military use)... I only stated that it was the first commercial sporting rifle ever chambered for the 30 U.S. cartridge. The primary firearm used by U.S. military personnel in Cuba (San Juan Hill) was the 45-70 Springfield Trapdoor. Very few Springfield Krag rifles were available, and even fewer Winchester Model 1895s were on hand.
The historical records are quite clear in that just (100) Model 1895s were sent to the Phillipines. The few that were used in the Spanish American War were privately owned. By the end of the year 1898, Winchester had manufactured just 19,567 Model 1895s, and a few thousand of that number were made in 38-72 WCF and 40-72 WCF.