OLD guns - what are they?

jjjxlr8

I will update with better pictures next week as I don't have these in hand, yet, but can someone take a stab at what these guns are so I can begin searching. I'm not sure where to start as I am interested in more modern military style weapons.

Anything tidbits of information would be appreciated!

Here we go:

1) Double barrel shotgun



2) Another double barrel shotgun



3) Another double barrel shotgun



4) Unknown, octagonal barrel



5) Unknown


6) unknown




7) unknown




8) parts

rhmc24

You are right about better pictures, need good enuf to read the lettering and ID the markings, if possible. Otherwise copy whatever you can read of the letterings. Generally, old side hammer double shotguns we see are made in Belgium and worth little unless in fine condition. If any can be ID as US made they will be worth more. Of the pictures I see, the gun with the patch box in the butt is one likely to be of interest to collectors and should at least get your best picture effort.

perry shooter

+1 I agree the shotguns from what I can see don't appear to be high quality or in very good condition and thus little collector interest.However even though the rifles look in fair to poor condition the first one "Half Stock" and the second one Full Stock could be worth something .DO NOT try to clean or FIX anything on these two but try for better pictures . the third rifle is a train wreck BUT is military and may have a part or two that would be worth money.

upjumtddebl

Second one down is a European Jager hunting rifle,maybe German but most likely Austrian. the heavy cheekpiece and unique sideplate/escutcheon are typical of that country's style.I have one very similar to it in percussion dated about 1850 or so

mark christian

The shotguns are what are commonly known as trade guns and made to a price point for bulk retail sales to wholesalers and sales through catalogs. They likely have Damascus/twist barrels are are not safe to use with modern loads, or even light black powder loads in many cases. The term "wall hanger" covers these guns in their current condition and the market for them is limited to display pieces hanging over the fireplace.

lcdrdanr

"Occidental" was a trade name used on shotguns made in Belgium and imported circa 1890.

Dan R

nord

All the wrong photos of all the wrong things...

The shotguns are likely trade guns as has already been shared. Probably Belgian or English. Look for proofs on the barrel flats and share them with us.

The badly mauled piece is most probably a military item given the sling provision forward of the trigger guard.

Your fullstock has what many of us refer to as a National Road patchbox. The Star of Nazareth on the cheekpiece says almost certainly a Pennsylvania rifle or fowler. This piece may actually have some value. DON'T TOUCH IT WITH ANY TYPE OF CLEANER AND DON'T ATTEMPT TO RESTORE IT!

The rest is anyone's guess right now. Here's a short primer on photography and description:

1. Focus. Fuzzy isn't good. Clear, sharp photos are necessary.

2. Guns need to be photographed as follows...
Butt to forward of the lock on all four sides.
Top barrel flat if signed.
Muzzle area in detail.
Full side shots. (Both sides.)

3. Measurements are always good. Barrel length is important.

4. All proof marks need to be properly shared with us. Serial numbers
are of almost no consequence. (Proofs will be hidden under the
barrels.)

5. Locks on older guns tend to be stamped by the manufacturer of
the lock, not the gun. Lock stamping on your shotguns often
relates to the retailer and has nothing to do with the
manufacturer. The exception being those guns made by major
companies. (Ithaca, L.C. Smith, Fox, Stevens, Colt, etc.)

Give us what we need and we'll try for a somewhat educated answer. I might suggest that you post the long rifle to either the forums at Antiqueguns or AmericanLongrifle.

To Admin: I realize that Antiqueguns has a commercial side. Please humor me as the forum side has nothing to do with the commercial side.
Further, please note that AmericanLongrifles is totally non-commercial. The Library and Museum is free and open to the public and offers the largest number of long rifle exhibits in one place anywhere in the world.

Thanks,

B

jjjxlr8

Thanks for all of the information.

I did not take any of these photos and unfortunately do not have these in my possession, yet. As soon as I receive them, I will take some more detailed photos to post.

jjjxlr8

OK...I've got some more photos

I'll start with 7) which used to be a M1854 Austrian Lorenz. It's very rough but the action still works!

jjjxlr8

Here are some more pictures of 6) which may be a PA Hunting rifle:

jjjxlr8

Here are more pics of 4). This one has "L RUTTMANN ANSBACH" on the underside of the barrel as shown. It has a very pronounced cheek rest.

jjjxlr8

Here are some more pictures of 3), the Janssen side by side shotgun