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Winchester Rifles
isutoad
Member Posts: 156 ✭✭
I was wondering the year of manufacture of a Winchester model 94 with a serial # of 35769xx.And also the year and approx. value at 90% of a Winchester model 64 serial # 20157xx in .32 Win. Sp.
Comments
If you are unable to identify a reworked, altered, or faked Winchester when you examine it, you should always have an old Winchester checked by the CFM before you buy it, or get a guaranteed money back deal from the seller if it does not letter correctly.
I will tell you, that at least 95% of the time, there are telltale signs that an old Winchester has been altered, modified, reworked, or that it is not factory original. Unfortunately, there are just too many dishonest dealers out there who looking for buyers like you.
Always do your homework before breaking out your wallet!
WACA Historian & Life Member
The only way around this, is to only buy on a ironclad 3 day approval basis. Unfortunately few of the sellers, with older collectible quality guns. Will go this route. To many willing unknowledgeable buyers, are available nowadays. Specially on the net auctions.
I?m a small collector in his 70 living in his childhood. I never has the dollar in my younger years to purchase the rifles. It seem like I have make some good buys and some bad buys. Example I just purchased a Winchester 1892 in Colorado that was in 44 wcf . I did a check with the Cody museum and came back original was a 38 wcf. I have done this a couple of times. Could someone please help me with, what happens to the price of the rifle and how do you know before you buy. The rifles look original and I would of never knowned the difference without checking. Thank you
You pretty much answered your own question. ALWAYS ask and check BEFORE any money changes hands! There are literally thousands of these rifles for sale over a period of time so there is little need to be in a rush or hurry to get one unless it is something very unique. And then make certain that you can get your money back if it turns out wrong. Send me some photos of it at 2bitrifles@gmail.com and I will be glad to take a look at it for you and see if some things were obviously amiss.
Michael
Model 1892 / 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
However, if your interest is directed more toward owning nostalgia, history, models, or examples of the guns you saw as a kid in the western movies and on TV you can set your sights a lot lower, pay a lot less, and still be happy with your collection. Maybe more happy. You will feel a lot more comfortable hanging them on the walls of your den, and shooting them from time to time, than having a few safe-queens you take out twice a year to oil and wipe down and don't dare shoot for fear of harming it.
If your 1892 started as one caliber and is now another, that is part of it's history. Sure, high-end collectors won't be interested, but so what? It doesn't necessarily mean someone was pulling a fast one. Maybe the original barrel was damaged somehow, got worn out, or lost its accuracy from muzzle cleaning (quite common with Winchester levers). It is even possible that it was returned to Winchester for a caliber change, in which case the impact on value is much less than if Bubba did it. Oh, and those of us that have been in the game for many decades know not to trust 100% in anybody's records from any source.
I have collected old guns for many decades. The gun room behind where I am now sitting contains several hundred old Winchesters, Colts, S&Ws, Spencers, Sharps, and Springfields among others. I love the smell of history that permeates the room when I enter. To me, a gun is of little interest if it has not participated in some aspect of history and usually there are signs to show it. When I own a gun it is a connection between me and some usually unknown person(s from the past. I have little interest in a gun that is over 100 years old and in near factory condition. It sat on a shelf all those years and did nothing.
Back when I worked at the store, there was this old guy that would bring in an old new in the box/bag Browning HP every 5 years or so. He would put on the cotton gloves and have us look it over to make sure it was still NIB. I told him someday someone would be the first one to shoot it, I think that depressed him.
It's only money and you can't take it or what you buy with you.
I love my collection, but as I looked through his new inventory I had to say out loud ....."It's a whole bunch cheaper to collect patinaed guns than blue ones!"
Collect what you like!
i prefer smokeless current caliber winchesters myself.
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
>>Could someone please help me with, what happens to the price of the rifle and how do you know before you buy. The rifles look original and I would of never knowned the difference without checking. Thank you:
Pretty straightforward. The most valuable thing to collectors is "original condition". Anything that takes away from original condition lowers the value of the gun. So all else being equal, a gun that was rebarreled after leaving the factory won't be worth as much as one that wasn't.
How do you spot a gun that's been reworked?
It can be easy. . .it can be hard. One thing is to do what you did do BEFORE you buy the gun. Have the serial number checked. Well worth the small investment rather than ending up with a "dud", and no honest seller should object to that. Also, get an expert to see the gun in person.
In my experience, many honest sellers will accept a deposit as a sign of good faith to hold a gun for purchase for a period of time prior to transfer. IMO that can potentially be a good alternative to a money-back guarantee, while you have a gun checked out.
In terms of actually spotting changes or replacement parts on inspection, those are things that are usually easy for persons with a lot of experience examining these things. For persons with negligible experience (eg me), this can be impossible. So if you aren't an expert, find one and have them look over the gun for you, or even better yet WITH you, so you can learn what to look for.
Personally, I wouldn't even TRY to buy an expensive antique Winchester, because I know the market is full of reworked guns, fakes, etc. I don't know how to spot these things, and I don't have a good sense of what they "should" be worth. Its just not my "area", so I'm not going to step onto the field, so to speak. Obviously, that's just my feeling. . .I don't love old Winchesters as some do!
I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with owning a reworked gun so long as you know what you have, and pay the appropriate fair market price for it. These things may not command top dollar, but that doesn't mean they can't be fun to own or even that they won't appreciate with time.
Lastly, there are multiple legitimate experts on this board including Bert, who posted, above. Well-lit, high-resolution photos of the whole gun aren't a substitute for a good personal inspection, but they can be pretty good, and may be able to show alterations.
They will tell you what's right and what's wrong with a gun before you buy it. But you'll not find any bargains there because they know exactly what they have and what it's worth. I'm fortunate to have a 20+ year relationship with such a dealer.