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Springfield Trapdoor 1873?

WearyTravelerWearyTraveler Member Posts: 2,019 ✭✭✭
edited May 2018 in Ask the Experts
Picked up this rifle in a basement 'clean out' and I'm trying to learn more about it.

I believe it is an 1870 Springfield Trapdoor .45-70 with an 1863 hammer piece. The barrel and receiver have matching numbers 37224 and the Trapdoor breech says 1870. From what I could tell, the number dates it to 1873.(?) the stock has been cut.

Any info on these I would greatly appreciate. I've found some parts online, like a replacement stock (I think that's all it needs) and I'm wondering if it is worth the effort.
”People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
- GEORGE ORWELL -
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Comments

  • JohnnyBGoodJohnnyBGood Member Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Off the top of my head, only about 11,000 Model 1870s were made and most were not serial numbered. Whereas 40,000+ Model 1868s were made and were serial numbered. So, you likely have a Model 1868 made in 1870. It also should be 50-70 and not 45-70.
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  • oldWinchesterfanoldWinchesterfan Member Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm no expert on trapdoors but I'm pretty certain the first guns built specifically as trapdoors were model 1873s. Prior to that they were converting left over muzzle loaders from the war between the states to breech loaders by converting them with the trapdoor mechanism. If yours was made in 1870 it was a conversion and not a newly made trapdoor, and may have some previous history.

    Added: And I think the conversions were all to 50-70. IIRC the 45-70 was adopted in 1873 when they started making "new" trapdoors.
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  • WearyTravelerWearyTraveler Member Posts: 2,019 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm leaning more toward oldWinchesterfan's explanation from what I've read. Given that the hammer piece/plate is dated 1863, I think it is a convert with a the War of Northern Aggression part.

    I also measured the diameter of the barrel and it is right at 3/4 of an inch (not the opening, from the outside of the barrel all the way across) and I read that it a .45-70 dimension and that the .50-70 were bigger.
    ”People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
    - GEORGE ORWELL -
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  • cbyerlycbyerly Member Posts: 689 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If the barrel and receiver are numbered on the left side, it started out as a model 1868, 50-70.
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  • chiefrchiefr Member Posts: 14,111 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cbyerly
    If the barrel and receiver are numbered on the left side, it started out as a model 1868, 50-70.



    Yep, that's what I was thinking. SA had over a million Lock mechanisms from 63 Springfields and used them to make the first trapdoors. Erskin Allin was the inventor.
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  • oldWinchesterfanoldWinchesterfan Member Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by chiefr
    quote:Originally posted by cbyerly
    If the barrel and receiver are numbered on the left side, it started out as a model 1868, 50-70.



    Yep, that's what I was thinking. SA had over a million Lock mechanisms from 63 Springfields and used them to make the first trapdoors. Erskin Allin was the inventor.


    Weren't these guns called Allin Conversions?
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  • WearyTravelerWearyTraveler Member Posts: 2,019 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The info on this page confirm that it is a Allin Conversion with the dates and markings, I just need to get some measurements.

    http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/m68.html
    ”People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
    - GEORGE ORWELL -
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  • chiefrchiefr Member Posts: 14,111 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by oldWinchesterfan
    quote:Originally posted by chiefr
    quote:Originally posted by cbyerly
    If the barrel and receiver are numbered on the left side, it started out as a model 1868, 50-70.



    Yep, that's what I was thinking. SA had over a million Lock mechanisms from 63 Springfields and used them to make the first trapdoors. Erskin Allin was the inventor.


    Weren't these guns called Allin Conversions?



    Yes the Second Allin was the first centerfire in 50-70. I own and shoot one.
    The first Allin was made in 58 rimfire. The rimfire was dropped later in favor of the 50-70. The original muzzle loading 61 and 63 muskets had more power than the 58 rimfire.

    The 50-70 was very popular in its era and it has been said to have killed more bison than all others combined.
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