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Help identify this pistol

WearyTravelerWearyTraveler Member Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭
edited May 2018 in Ask the Experts
Need help identifying. It is not a Hammerli prototype Olympic 'free' Pistol .22

The German proof marks should put it between 1891-1912 (at least they say it isn't).

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https://www.vaguntrader.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1343936/Help_identify_this_pistol#Post1343936
”People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
- GEORGE ORWELL -
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    WearyTravelerWearyTraveler Member Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Have seen a pistol, serial number 504,XXX, markings on it are CRD 7.65, the pistol is blued, has an eagle or other bird symbol on the right rear frame and the left front frame, on the right grip it has a large (1/2 inch or so) S with a superposed S with a small U in the middle. Supposedly brought back from Germany at the end of WWII, and resembles a Walther. Same size as a Russian Mochoroff (sp-1).
    No rust, pistol is tight.
    What is it? Manufacturer?
    General worth, is in good to excellent shape.

    976371019-1.jpg "Know the true value of time; snatch, seize, and enjoy every moment of it." Lord Chesterfield
    ”People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
    - GEORGE ORWELL -
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I believe, that it's a falling block action free pistol. They were made on a custom basis, back during the Kaisers days in the fatherland.

    There were many different variations, using different mechanisms. The one I remember was called the Tell. As they were custom made, each gunsmith would make whatever the customer wanted. Some were very ornate, and highly engraved.

    They still practice target shooting with free pistols in Europe. But the single shot pistols they now use. Are evolved, and completely different from old timers like yours.
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    WearyTravelerWearyTraveler Member Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
    I believe, that it's a falling block action free pistol. They were made on a custom basis, back during the Kaisers days in the fatherland.

    There were many different variations, using different mechanisms. The one I remember was called the Tell. As they were custom made, each gunsmith would make whatever the customer wanted. Some were very ornate, and highly engraved.

    They still practice target shooting with free pistols in Europe. But the single shot pistols they now use. Are evolved, and completely different from old timers like yours.


    Yes, the Buchel Tell looks somewhat similar and Buchel's seem to have similar triggers. The pistol is extremely well made and the fit is outstanding. I was hoping I could find some better provenance for it, but German custom made might be as far as we get. Thought it might be Swiss with German marks, but have no proof of that.
    ”People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
    - GEORGE ORWELL -
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Your close up photo, of the side, and it's very basic engraving. Also lack of gun smiths name, engraved on the pistol. Suggests to me, that it isn't a true custom made free pistol. But something made to be sold by a retail firearms store. Such as Adolf Frank in Hamburg, or Brenneke.

    There are a couple of specific German gun collector associations/forums on the net. You might try them, with you photos. You will be able to find them by GOOGLEing.
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    Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,369 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Could not find the like in ALFA 1911.
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    walliewallie Member Posts: 12,171 ✭
    edited November -1
    x6Lzdi0.jpg
    1Saq1M0.jpg
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wallie
    x6Lzdi0.jpg



    Thanks for the heads-up Wallie! Where did you find the photo? Went through all my references. Couldn't find nada. Although their were a lot of different photos, of free pistols.
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    walliewallie Member Posts: 12,171 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by wallie
    x6Lzdi0.jpg



    Thanks for the heads-up Wallie! Where did you find the photo? Went through all my references. Couldn't find nada. Although their were a lot of different photos, of free pistols.


    I asked for the info from a shooter over yonder and he sent the pic with this last info
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    WearyTravelerWearyTraveler Member Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    After looking at it for the upteenth time, this time the light was just right and I noticed lettering on the top of the barrel.

    It as a PISTOLE VENUS, by Waffenwerks, gunsmith Oscar Will (from what others emailed on another board after I found the name.

    It is very similar to the one on the pages below posted by Wallie (thanks Wallie).

    There is one in the Buffalo Bill Center of the West Museum. That one is Numbered in the 56167 and dated between 1924-1939. Mine is numbered 3619.

    Horst Held on the Antique Guns website found an old catalog with the final year of ordering being 1928 so I'd put the museum's between 1924-28.

    Still working on more info.
    ”People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
    - GEORGE ORWELL -
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