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Can you make the mini 14 accurate
one2hutn
Member Posts: 261 ✭✭✭
I know the AR is inherently more accurate than the mini but the mini seems to win hands down when it comes to function and dependability. I have a few friends that went with the mini and did everything they could to make it a tack driver but all that money later-more than a built up AR- they still couildn't compete with the AR's in terms of accuracy.Is the mini really just a glorified truck or close quarters gun?
Comments
The Mini 14 is, I think, best thought of as a modern day M1 carbine. It is dependable and accurate enough for general shooting, but it's not a target gun. You can send it off to these guys:
http://www.ruger-mini-14-firearms.com/mini_14_30_accessories.php#gasblock1
But it's expensive. I had one of the packages done to my old Mini and it works fine, shoots an OK 1" group @ 100 yds. Even though it's not as accurate, I still prefer shooting the Mini to my ARs.
I never really thought of one of these as "glorified", but I think that's pretty much the point of these things. . .as a close range "blaster". For that purpose, they're great.
In general, accuracy and reliability work against one another.
The high tolerances you need for maximum accuracy also tend to work against reliability. Conversely, loose tolerances that encourage reliability tend to work against accuracy.
Is it *possible* to make a mini-14 into a match-quality rifle? It probably is given enough expensive and time-consuming tweaking of the action and barrel, but I think the fact that nobody is using these in accuracy type matches sort of answers the question.
If you need super-accuracy, why would you even look at one of these things? In fact if maximum accuracy and reliability are the goal, I'd be looking at a bolt-action rifle, not any semi-auto gun.
If the goal is pinpoint accuracy in a high-capacity semi-automatic platform, you know which way to go. Its probably easier to make an AR-15 more reliable than a mini-14 more accurate.
"In general, accuracy and reliability work against one another."
"The high tolerances you need for maximum accuracy also tend to work against reliability. Conversely, loose tolerances that encourage reliability tend to work against accuracy."
Horse feathers and garbage.
Thousands of extreme accuracy rifles are build each year by some of the top gunsmiths which are 100% reliable day in and day out. These rifles aren't just target rifles used in benchrest matches either. Many of them are built to sustain extreme accuracy in the field of protection, rescue and daily military exercises. These rifles have to be consistently accurate and reliable because someone's life usually depends on it. This is from direct hands-on experience and knowledge not just some crap I read on the internet.
As far as the Mini-14 is concerned, the older versions are not worth the money charged for them originally or the money necessary to invest in them in order to achieve any decent accuracy. The newest version has some improvements and shows some increase in consistent accuracy. However, the better AR15 assemblies and some of the best AR10's will dance circles around the Mini-14 every day. Remember that the quality of the glass and loads will have still have a bearing on any system with regard to accuracy.
Best.
I have seen some very reliable AR's(both the 15's, and 10's with the free floating bull barrels), that are very accurate and reliable. I have owned them. The DPMS LR-308 would do between 1/4 and 1/2 MOA with Federal GMM ammo. The varmint model AR-15 would do well under 1 MOA with 62 grain match ammo. They both had great glass. They both never gave a hiccup, not once.
I have also seen and shot some Mini-14's that shot great, and some that were horrid for accuracy. The great shooter's were between 1 and 1 1/2 MOA guns. They never gave a problem.
It is my understanding that using the same principals used to give the M1A's their National Match pedigree, like a decent barrel, and bedding, along with harmonic dampening, they too can be made decently accurate, but it takes a lot more than it does with an AR. I have seen some milled reciever AK-47's that were extremely accurate, not to mention reliable, but they are rare exceptions, especially considering the available ammunition.
If you are looking for good accuracy without loss in any reliability that comes from crapping where you are eating, like the AR's do, I might suggest a gas piston AR. Although, I hear they do give up some accuracy to the standard Varmint/Heavy free floated barrel AR's.
Once again, great optics, and a good trigger are paramount to good accuracy. Both the AR's I had that the accuracy was outstanding, also had two stage MATCH triggers, that were properly adjusted.
It is all dependant on what you want, what you want to do with it, and how much you wish to spend...bottom line.
Best
beantownshootah,
"In general, accuracy and reliability work against one another."
"The high tolerances you need for maximum accuracy also tend to work against reliability. Conversely, loose tolerances that encourage reliability tend to work against accuracy."
Horse feathers and garbage.
Thousands of extreme accuracy rifles are build each year by some of the top gunsmiths which are 100% reliable day in and day out. . .(etc)
No argument there. Who said anything different?
Of course its possible to build highly accurate guns that are also highly reliable. Pretty much any modern bolt action gun is going to be 100% reliable, or at least as close to that as you can get in a working mechanical firearm built by human beings. Ditto for revolvers and a few other types of guns. The more accurate ones aren't any LESS reliable than less accurate ones.
The same can be true of semi-automatic guns, though the complexity of the actions can make it a little tougher to build guns that are both accurate and reliable. Design matters there. . .a LOT.
I was just talking in broad generalities here. In GENERAL loose tolerances (in the chamber, etc), can help shrug off dirt, less than perfect cases, etc, and enhance reliability, particularly in sub-optimal shooting conditions. In GENERAL, you're not going to get maximum accuracy without close tolerances. In GENERAL, there are reasons why most armies aren't fielding their soldiers with match-quality guns (Switzerland being a notable historical exception) and its not just because of costs.
As an example, if you look at match versions and non-match versions of the same semi-auto pistol or rifle, usually its the match one that's more finicky, both in terms of what ammo it prefers to use and how clean it needs to be to run 100%. This isn't always true, but its often so.
The nice match gun that runs 100% and prints 1/4" groups may not be so cooperative (say) after firing 12 mags in a row uncleaned in a muddy or sandy environment. Which gets to another point. . .how reliable a gun is can depend largely on how well its maintained and in what conditions its run. You might never run against a guns intrinsic reliability limits until you start to push things a bit.
Also, speaking of tolerances and back to the original question, here is an interesting article explaining some of the reasons why the Mini-14s have been relatively inaccurate in the past, and what steps Ruger has taken to tighten them up a bit:
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/featured_rifles/rugranch_071807/
"...but the one thing I've never considered is that it may cost less to make an AR more reliable than it will to make a mini more accurate."
ARs, in general, are reliable if you stick with the better manufacturers. Their accuracy in some cases can be suspect right out of the box but it can be fixed as you stated and for less than the prices listed for the Mini-14 accuracy packages.
I've shot both the AR15s and the AR10s to 1,000 yards and they have been proof of the kind of accuracy that can be achieved by these rifles. These were not factory rifles of course except for one AR10(T) but the system can achieve the need for accuracy.
"I always try to look at things in terms of best of all in one when maybe there is no such weapon-at least in my price range."
A common occurrence for all of us, I assure you! You're not alone.
Good Luck!
Best.
beantownshootah,
You are one slippery dude. [:D] That's a lot of prattling for naught. You should stick with what you know and not what you read and think you know. [:D][:D]
Best.