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Winchester Model 1890

toopertooper Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
edited October 2009 in Ask the Experts
I HAVE A WINCHESTER MODEL 90 THIRD MODEL IN .22WRF WITH A ROUND BARREL -NOT OCTAGON. THE SERIAL NUMBER IS 580417 ON BOTH THE LOWER TANG AND UNDER RECEIVER MAKING THE MANUFACTURE DATE 1917. I CAN FIND NO ROUND BARREL 1890 RIFLES IN .22WRF - IS THIS A REBARREL? WINCHESTER LOGO MARKS ARE BOTH ON BARREL AND RECEIVER IN PROPER LOCATION. THANKS FOR ANY HELP.
VERN

Comments

  • toopertooper Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I picked up a Winchester Model 1890 at a garage sale recently that was missing the magazine. It is one of the earlier models with an octagonal barrel and no take down screw. The serial #130XX indicates that it was made in 1892. The finish was not in great shape, but I cleaned it up, replaced the magazine with a new one, and now it shoots (.22 shorts) just fine. My question is whether it would be worth trying to find an older, used magazine to put it back into original condition, or just be happy with it hanging on my wall as is? I'm not trying to sell it, but if it's truly rare, it would be nice to know what its value is and whether it would be worth hunting down an older magazine. Any comments would be appreciated.
  • toopertooper Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    An 1890 that my great grandfather bought in 1906 when the rifle was manufactured is now in my hands. I am not looking to sell it but I would like to know more about it because it does not seem to fit the normal models, at least when looking in one gun value book. But I was hoping someone on here could help me out with the history of this gun and what it might be worth for insurance reasons.

    It has a serial number in the 65k range. It has the original factory blued barrel and according to the gunsmith I took it to the condition is still greater than 60%. It has the octagonal barrel with the 15 round tube mag.

    However the receiver does not seem to have been blued, or if it was there is none of it left. It was sitting in storage for several years and there was on rust on it.

    It is chambered in .22 Long.

    It also has a fixed rear sight.

    The stock has the metal but plate on it, and all of it is still in very good condition. It looks very nice has never been re varnished but it does have some wear near the grip which is expected from a gun that was used to hunt squirrel for dinner on a regular occasion.

    The rifle still fires and is very accurate.

    Thanks for your time.
  • toopertooper Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a Winchester Model 1890. 22 short. Octogon barrel. I believe it to be the First Model. Serial number is 9942. Does anyone out there have an idea as to what this gun is worth? I know that is a very broad question since there are many factors to consider. I'd like to sell it and need a starting point. Thanks!
  • toopertooper Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    We have come into possession of a Winchester Model 1890. It has the number 22 on the top rear of the BBL. Can anyone tell me which 22 this may be. I suspect that it is the 22 WRF but I am not sure. The serial # of the gun is 2023xx. Thanks Vic & Jane
  • toopertooper Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    could someone tell me the approx. value of winchester model 1890 22 short
  • toopertooper Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a Winchester Model 1890 in .22 Short that is really a very, very nice old rifle, but it has been fooled with at some point in the past. By being fooled with I mean that the receiver and magazine do not retain any original finish, and if memory serves me right, the proof mark that had been on the receiver has been mostly, or totally, removed, but it does retain its sharp edges. The action is great as is the bore, and the original bluing on the barrel is excellent. The wood is excellent as well. I doubt that I'll ever shoot it, but I have a hankering to fix it up "to make it look really, really nice," without having to do a very expensive and complete Turnbull type restoration in order to get the metal finish to match up well on all pieces. Ideally, a top of the line reblue of the receiver and magazine tube to match the barrel blue finish that it now has which is original would be perfect, but can such a thing be done without having a receiver and magazine that looks newer than the barrel? I'd also need to have the buttplate refinished to match as well. I really would appreciate some guidance to this end. Also, I like scoped Winchesters, and since this rifle is no longer original, it would be a great piece to fit with a nice old Winchester A5 Scope, or a tang site for that matter. Any and all helpful replies will be greatly appreciated.
  • toopertooper Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Can someone tell me what the difference is between the first, second and third model?
  • toopertooper Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was looking for a Winchester model 1890 and some guns were showing up as model 90. Are the model 90s the same as a model 1890. Thank You
  • toopertooper Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Winchester model 1890 what is the value?

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  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    tooper,

    Hello, and welcome to the forums here on Gunbroker.

    In order for us to give you an accurate evaluation, we are going to need to see some good pictures. there is a sticky thread near the top of the "Ask the Experts" forum, that explains picture posting. You will need a photohosting website like photobucket to do so.

    We have a few resident Winchester experts on here, of which Bert H is also one of the forums moderators. I am sure he will be along shortly.

    Best
  • shooter10shooter10 Member Posts: 461 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    tooper
    Yes, Bert can tell you to the month when it was made but according to my 2006 Standard Catalog of Firearms - Ned Schwing - they were made from 1890 to 1892 and about 15,552 (Bert will probably heve better numbers on this too). But it is all about condition. A very nice firearm for collectors if the condition is good. I am going to guess your rifle was made in March 1891...See what Bert says.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Serial 9942 was manufactured in the latter part of November, 1891.

    Based on the serial number and date of manufacture, it is a First Model, and therefore, it is potentially worth a lot of $$$$.

    In order to give you a reasonably close estimate of the value, I will need to see detailed pictures of it. First Model 1890s can be worth anywhere from $1,500 - $15,000... it all depends upon the precise graded condition.
  • toopertooper Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
  • toopertooper Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    Serial 9942 was manufactured in the latter part of November, 1891.

    Based on the serial number and date of manufacture, it is a First Model, and therefore, it is potentially worth a lot of $$$$.

    In order to give you a reasonably close estimate of the value, I will need to see detailed pictures of it. First Model 1890s can be worth anywhere from $1,500 - $15,000... it all depends upon the precise graded condition.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK, this is my opinion as to its current value...

    The condition is "Fair", and as such, it is worth about $1800. It is a prime candidate for a professional restoration (and not by Turnbull).

    If you list it here on Gunbroker, start it at $1800 with no reserve.
  • BigLoop22BigLoop22 Member Posts: 620 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert,

    I hope this is not a delicate matter, but can you please explain why Mr. Turnbull should not restore the Model 1890 in question?

    EDIT: Thanks, tsr1965 & Bert, for that perspective.

    Thanks,
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by BigLoop22
    Bert,

    I hope this is not a delicate matter, but can you please explain why Mr. Turnbull should not restore the Model 1890 in question?

    Thanks,


    I am not Bert, but will give you my take on this. I will let you in that I know Doug Turnbull personally too, as one of our local boys.

    When Doug does a restoration, he takes the rifle back to factory original...NIB, but goes even beyond that. He has some of the most beautiful color case hardening I have ever seen.

    When a restoration is done...IMHO, it should take into account, that even if the gun is 125 years old, its characteristics are going to age, even if it remains NIB, but well cared for. color case hardening will change color, wood will change, and even some blueing will turn plum brown or brown patina. This rifle is over 100 years old, and it should look like a rifle that is 100 years old, not one that Left the factory yesterday. Don't get me wrong, Doug does fabulous work, and if you want an immaculate work of art that is as new or better embelished as when it left the factory, then Turnbull is the place for you. If you want it to look NIB, but 100 plus years of age, then it is not.

    Bert will advise you wheree you can take it to get the NIB but 100 years old restoration.

    Best
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by BigLoop22
    Bert,

    I hope this is not a delicate matter, but can you please explain why Mr. Turnbull should not restore the Model 1890 in question?

    Thanks,


    It is not a delicate subject at all. In my persoanl opinion Turnbull does top quality refinish work, which is not the same as a true restoration.

    More to the point, every single one of the Turnbull Winchesters (lots of 1886s) I have had my hands on was over polished prior to being re-case colored or blued. As originally milled and polished by Winchester, the steel parts are not smooth like glass... but when Turnbull is done with them, the receiver frames and other parts are polished to the point that they are overly (too) smooth. That fact is why his case colors look so brilliant and deep. I do not care for the barrel bluing either, as he apparently uses a hot tank, whereas Winchester used the old style of rust bluing (the barrel and magazine tube should be more of a blue grey versus the deep dark blue).

    Again, Turnbull does exceptionally fine "refinish" work, but it is not a true "restoration".
  • rusty shackelfordrusty shackelford Member Posts: 152 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    what he says makes sense !

    rusty
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