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Selecting a S&W .38
niccar
Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
Hello I am new to the forum, and have tried searching something relevant to the info I am looking for, but was unable to find it, hense the new topic.
I am trying to find the proper CCW S&W .38 for my girl. She finds my M19-3 2.5" too large for her hand. She recently visited Cabela's and fell in love with the S&W 638 and 642 with CT
She also stumbled onto a used Ladysmith at a gun show on her own this weekend and liked it, and she has decided that once she is proficient with the gun, then she would invest in CT.
I was pleased at the revelations she came to on her own.
That being the back story, I am asking for a little expert insight on what we could shop for, that offers the conceal-ability and punch, but in an older model that may offer a smoother trigger and afford-ability over the newer weapons.
Thank you in advance for any positive input you could share.
nic
I am trying to find the proper CCW S&W .38 for my girl. She finds my M19-3 2.5" too large for her hand. She recently visited Cabela's and fell in love with the S&W 638 and 642 with CT
She also stumbled onto a used Ladysmith at a gun show on her own this weekend and liked it, and she has decided that once she is proficient with the gun, then she would invest in CT.
I was pleased at the revelations she came to on her own.
That being the back story, I am asking for a little expert insight on what we could shop for, that offers the conceal-ability and punch, but in an older model that may offer a smoother trigger and afford-ability over the newer weapons.
Thank you in advance for any positive input you could share.
nic
Comments
The "Ladysmith" is more or less the same gun as the non "Ladysmith" counterpart, just with nice script lettering, fancier grips, and a higher price tag.
The cheapest gun is probably the old Smith 36, which is a blued steel version. You can probably still find beat but 100% functional used ones for under $300 on the auction site if you're patient.
Just decide on the following:
Finish:
-Blued steel (eg model 36, lowest cost, but not rust resistant, and finish is prone to wear).
-Stainless steel (eg model 60, rust resistant, no finish to wear off, more $ than blue)
-Aluminum alloy "Airweight" (good for carry, bad for recoil)
Comes in silver color (eg 642) or black/blue color (eg 442).
Hard to find used bargains here. . .these are desirable guns.
-Scandium (forget it. . .too expensive, not enough benefit).
Caliber
.38 vs .357. . .
I say just pick .38 (.357 is "too much" for most shooters in a J-frame gun).
Hammer type
With hammer (eg 637, Chief's special), can cock hammer, may snag on draw.
Without hammer (internal hammer, eg 642, Centennial) can't cock hammer, less likely to snag.
Shrouded hammer ("bodyguard" model) Best of both worlds, can cock hammer, less likely to snag. . .but UGLY!
Then it comes down to budget and personal preference.
Personally, I like the Smith 637, which is a silver colored aluminum alloy .38+P with hammer. I consider the "snagging" hammer a plus since it helps prevent the gun from falling out of my pocket.
Many people favor the hammerless version, the 642, which is not only snag-resistant, but also conceptually simpler to use, and (in theory) capable of being fired from within a purse or pocket repeatedly.
And finally, be sure to outfit the gun with proper grips. You want grips that are comfortable, and (if necessary) concealable, and the two things can work against one another. The smallest most concealable grips may not be so comfortable to shoot, and the most comfortable ones generally aren't easy to conceal. So you may have to compromise there.
However, you are concealing one more inch of barrel.
BTW, you are NOT looking for a .38 S&W- but a S&W in .38 Special or .357 Mag. .38 S&W is, of course, an older, less powerful round.
Neal
Point to consider- the 2 inch barreled revolvers have a short ejector rod that will not kick fired cases completely clear of the revolver when reloading- the 3" barrel guns have a longer rod that WILL positively clear cases.
This is true, but unless you are also carrying spare ammo (which most people do NOT do) and are prepared to reload your gun with it quickly under stress (which most aren't) it won't make any difference.
Also, in practice, I've shot these guns a lot, and I've never had a hard time ejecting spent .38s from J frame guns with 1-7/8" bbls. (Just shot my 637 this weekend, in fact). You point the barrel up, hit the ejector rod hard, and the empties fall right out. In fact at least some of the time when you tip the barrel up, the spent shells will fall out of the gun without even working the ejector rod at all!
Now, the situation is a little different with .357 magnums, as the cases are a little more prone to expansion and stickiness, but even with magnums, most of the time the rounds come right out with minimal effort.
Clean chambers DO help here.
In terms of 2" (or more correctly 1-7/8") vs 3", I agree that all else being equal, 3" is better *IF* you can conceal it. Its easier to hit with, and you get a little extra power. Adjustable sights are a lot better on these guns, NOT because they are adjustable, but simply because they are a lot easier to see than the weak "gutter" sights on the typical snubnoses. (Downside is that they are also a lot more prone to snagging).
The problem with a 3" gun is that that extra inch of barrel length can make concealed carry in a pocket harder, or even impossible. It also means that many of the common holsters won't fit, if you're going to carry holstered.
As another practical matter, you're not going to find nearly the same variety of guns available in 3". There are older 3" .38s you can get in blued steel, but in current production, you've basically got the stainless .357 magnum and that's it.
If you want hammerless, shrouded hammer, or alloy-frame, then you are limited to 2" bbl guns. (You can always have a hammer bobbed, by the way).
quote:BTW, you are NOT looking for a .38 S&W- but a S&W in .38 Special or .357 Mag. .38 S&W is, of course, an older, less powerful round.
Again this is true.
In practice, unless you're deliberately looking for one, you're going to have a hard time finding any Smith and Wesson snubnose revolvers in .38SW as these I-frame "terriers" haven't been manufactured in 40+ years!
Also, one more point about ammo. Many individuals have a misconception that .38+P ammo is extremely powerful, or that its "midway" in between ordinary .38s and .357 magnum.
This is simply NOT true.
.38+P ammo is only a *LITTLE* bit more powerful than ordinary .38s. It operates at roughly 10% higher pressures (18,500 PSI vs 17,000) and only yields about 10% more velocity (roughly 850fps vs 780fps from a snubnose). In fact, if you run the chronograph, some of the so-called +P loads are barely more powerful than conventional loads.
Meanwhile .357 magnum operates at roughly DOUBLE the pressure of ordinary .38s (35,000 PSI) and yields 50% more velocity (roughly 1200fps from a snubnose). Note that 50% more velocity translates into more than double the kinetic energy.
If you want a round that truly IS midway in-between .38s and .357 magnum, then you are looking for a 9mm luger, which also operates at 35,000 PSI, and will yield around 1000 fps from a 3" barrel "micro" automatic like the Kel-Tec PF1 or Kahr guns.
Tonight Charlotte is going to the range in Seattle that hosts a ladies night on tuesdays along with "the young conservative babes of King county"
http://youngrepublicans.meetup.com/218/calendar/5716196/
She has gone through their roster of available weapons and has chosen a few that if they are available that she would like to compare them.
I appreciate the insight into the cases not ejecting properly and the deflation of the "hype" surrounding +P loads, but this brings up a question concerning the +P+ load I have heard thrown around on occasion, will these work safely in an older model such as the 36?
I also have an old (1974) Colt Cobra snubbie that is made of alloy. I would never try to feed this one a +P.
I keep a S&W model 36 in my auto. It was made in the mid 1970's, and shoots great for a 2" bbl. I agree with BEANTOWN about the older models not being +P rated. I keep +P's in my old 36 without any worries, but practice with standard .38 spl's.
I also have an old (1974) Colt Cobra snubbie that is made of alloy. I would never try to feed this one a +P.
Note that +P ammo was around LONG before guns were rated as being +P, and that +P ammo was DESIGNED to be used in ordinary guns.
Also note that the .38 special cartridge was designed during the blackpowder era (hence the really low operating pressure described above).
Modern STEEL guns have a lot of extra strength, and similar guns have been chambered in .357 magnum. So +P ammo in a modern ALL-STEEL J-frame should be fine.
I would NOT use +P ammo in any older NON-steel (eg aluminum frame) gun not rated for +P ammo. Not that this will "blow up" the gun, but frame distortion is a real issue with the older alloy frame guns, and +P ammo will worsen this problem. Personally, I wouldn't use an older alloy-frame gun as a CCW anyway, but that's a separate matter.
Lastly, ALL of the recent manufacture Smith alloy-frame guns are rated for +P ammo (including EVERY gun with the new "key lock"), and supposedly they WILL stand up to thousands of fired rounds of it. So don't worry about the newer guns.
Edit:
quote:IMO using +p+ in an older model 36 might not be a great idea--it will just beat your gun and your wrist up more and honestly I would bet the bad guy couldn't tell the difference. If you really need that step up in power go to a .357 Mag. I have used +p 158 grain loads from Buffalo Bore in my .38 snubby and as far as I'm concerned that was more than enough as my hands were buzzing after running a box through the gun.
+P+ ammo is really pushing things, and I agree, that its not a good idea to use that ammo in J-frames unless they are rated for .357 magnum.
In practice, not an issue, since +P+ ammo used to only be issued to police agencies, and even there, I don't think it is anymore. I've never seen a box of it in a store, ever. Even if I wanted to find some, I wouldn't know where to get it, except maybe if I found a box or two on an auction site.