I.D. for a Shotgun

scott71

I recently received a fairly nice older double barrel shotgun. I have tried to find info out on the net but keep coming up short. The only thing stamped on this gun is the name "Royal Arms Co." and after you break it open just a number stamped below the extractor which I'll assume is the serial number "22xxx" If anyone has any info on this shotgun I'd appreciate it.

Spider7115

Take off the forearm and look underneath the barrels near the breech for proofmarks. Tell us exactly what they are.

Pictures would really help. This thread shows you how: http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=259294

It's likely Belgian.

Ned Fall

Please do what Spider suggest. I suspect You are going to find Belgian proof marks consisting of the letters"ELG" in an oval with a crown over that. I looked in my reference books both foreign and domestic and found no ROYAL ARMS. I did find a ROYAL GUN CO, a ROYAL GUN WORKS, a ROYAL SERVICE and a ROYAL STEEL ENDERS ROYAL. I have listings for over 1,000 various names but this one is not among them. I would like to add it to my listings. If there are no proof marks on the bottom of the barrels, I have a pretty good idea of who made the gun. Will be watching for your reply.
Thanks

scott71

Thanks for the help guys.

I didn't find any kind of stamping on the end of the barrel after breaking down the gun. I looked over this gun with a fine tooth comb. So I'll post some pics to see what you guys think. Thanks again for the replies.

Also do you think this gun is safe to shoot? As far as I can tell everything is solid and the bore is clean and bright. No pitting or such. I'm going to take it along to a dealer I deal with to give it a once over. I was only going to test fire it with some light bird shot, nothing heavy. It's probably going to be a decorative piece but good to know that it still works.

Ned Fall

Thanks for the come back and I hope it was the breech end that you looked for the proof marks, not the muzzle. Since you didn't find any proofs that would indicate the gun was made in the United States and based on the patent date fairly recently. As I said, I have listings for four other guns with some form of the name Royal. One named ROYAL GUN CO was made by the Hollenbeck Arms Co or Three Barrel Gun Co as they were also known who made three barrel gun or drillings so they could not have made your gun. Another gun named ROYAL GUN WORKS was made by the Stevens Arms & Tool Co but that name was used on .44 caliber doubles so that's not your gun. The third named ROYAL SERVICE was made by Crescent Fire Arms Co and the fourth named ROYAL STEEL ENDERS ROYAL was made by Hunter Arms Co. I'm going to make a WAG and say your gun was made by Crescent and for the Shapleigh Hardware company. The gun appears to be in very good to excellent shape. It should be safe to shoot using appropriate ammunition, no 3 inch or magnum shells or steel shot but should be checked out by a competent gunsmith before doing so.

robertchambers

Your gun is a Fulton boxlock by Hunter Arms (L C Smith)...it's a very rugged boxlock built to compete in the marketplace with the Ithaca Flues model that was introduced around 1907...The patent was issued to George Lewis...the fore end wood looks a litte pregnant...let me know if you can see the link I've posted below

http://www.google.com/patents?id=I19bAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=983,559+Lewis+George&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q=983,559 Lewis George&f=false

scott71

Hey guys thanks again for all your input!!

Ned, I did check the breech end and came up empty. I really appreciate the help you provided. I'll be stopping off at the dealer in the next weekend or so to have him give it the once over.


Robert, I got the link you provided, thank you. It's very interesting to read. I'll assume that what you mean about the fore end wood being pregnant is a "good" thing. Any idea on a value for insurance purposes?

scott71

Now the I went to the "L.C. Smith" site I just noticed that logo they have on the top of their page. The hunting dog holding a quail, well it matches up to the butt on the shotgun. I saw that image and being a bit worn down I never thought about taking a pic of it. I'll have to post one for you guys tomorrow evening.

robertchambers

Scott,
You're 30 minutes away from having a solid shooter...even with my bad eyesight I can see the top strap sittin' 1/8 inch proud...and the top strap screw is sunk 1/8 inch...and somebodody shot it that way and blew out a chip of wood directly behind the top strap...in other words, the buttstock must be tightened before shooting it even once...that was a $150 chip...you don't want any more...I can't tell if that's the original fore end or not...it doesn't look like any LC fore end I've seen...but perhaps it's a rare ejector fore end which adds $200 to the vale of the gun...more if it's an unusual ejector system (Hunter Arms used several ejector systems)...

Also, do all three serial numbers match or are the numbers on the fore end iron different? These are all factors that reflect in the dollar value...

scott71

Robert, this may sound dumb but not being familiar. How do you fix up that top strap with adjusting that screw? Looks like that chip was in it for a long time. The color in the chip matches the rest of the stock, very dark. Also where do I find the 3rd serial #? I have matching #'s on the barrel and action. Couldn't find any on the fore end. All your help is appreciated. This is the best way for me to learn and gain knowledge about these things.

He Dog

The forend looking pregnant means the profile is a little too bellied out for the usual profile on these suggesting that the forend is perhaps not original. Naturally that would affect value.