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351 WSL Brass
dfletcher
Member Posts: 8,162 ✭✭✭
I recently picked up a used Winchester 1907:
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=677099
Yes, I'd say it's a reblue (the proofmarks have a bit of washout to them) but the stock cleaned up very well and a replacement buttplate found. The forend was an easy repair with Gorilla Glue and FairTrimmers helped alot. Finding brass was a bit of a challenge but I managed to find some, even loaded rounds for a good price. Poking around the net I found a post from a fellow who makes 351 WSL brass from .... 223 brass[?]
My 1st thought was "no way" but base diameter matches, rim thickness is pretty close too. Cut back the 223 case at the shoulder, trim to correct length then expand the case neck and fireform.
I hope to have a few hundred "for real" 351 WSL cases to work with, but being able to make obsolete brass from plain old 223 is interesting. And I won't go nuts losing an empty case at the range. Am I overlooking why it wouldn't work, anyone else tried this?
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=677099
Yes, I'd say it's a reblue (the proofmarks have a bit of washout to them) but the stock cleaned up very well and a replacement buttplate found. The forend was an easy repair with Gorilla Glue and FairTrimmers helped alot. Finding brass was a bit of a challenge but I managed to find some, even loaded rounds for a good price. Poking around the net I found a post from a fellow who makes 351 WSL brass from .... 223 brass[?]
My 1st thought was "no way" but base diameter matches, rim thickness is pretty close too. Cut back the 223 case at the shoulder, trim to correct length then expand the case neck and fireform.
I hope to have a few hundred "for real" 351 WSL cases to work with, but being able to make obsolete brass from plain old 223 is interesting. And I won't go nuts losing an empty case at the range. Am I overlooking why it wouldn't work, anyone else tried this?
Comments
Sure you didn't get the data mixed up with the 35 WSL? It has a base diameter of .378.
Cartridges of the World. Shows a substantial difference in base diameters. .407, for the WSL, viv a vis .373 for the 223.
Sure you didn't get the data mixed up with the 35 WSL? It has a base diameter of .378.
Rufe
The 35wsl has a case length between the 38spl and 357Mag
The 351wsl has a case length between the 357Mag and 357Max
Other than that they are the same.
I have used both and no problems. 2400 if you can find some is my powder of choice. Work up loads until you find one that can reliably cycle your action. Reload data is still around.
Bullets may be a problem, I was fortunate enough to find some NOS, however, I had ACCURATE make me a mold that matched the factory round and these are my personal favorites.
These are fun to shoot, heavy and no recoil at all.
I show base diameter for 351 and 5.56 as .377, rim diameter as .407 and .378 and rim thickness .05 and .045 in same order.
2400 was suggested for fireforming, I have the "Handloader" on line info and they have about 40 different loadings for the 351 WSL.
One concern is case wall thickness just south of the shoulder. I know from loading reworked 5.56 as 300 Blackout there's quite a difference, and stretching even further to 35 caliber probably doesn't help.
Edit: Rather than cutting back 5.56 brass a better approach seems to be either using 300 AAC Blackout brass or 221 Remington Fireball. 221 FB case length is listed as 1.4" and 300 AAC/Whisper listed as 1.365" - the 351 WSL case length is listed as 1.74". Taking a 22 caliber neck up to 35 caliber seems a stretch and 221 FB brass isn't cheap. AAC brass is easy to get, just wondering if thinner rim and shorter case length is too much variation.
Grafs and Western Bullet have plenty of .351 diameter bullets - kind of surprised me that bullets were easy to find.
I show base diameter for 351 and 5.56 as .377, rim diameter as .407 and .378 and rim thickness .05 and .045 in same order.
2400 was suggested for fireforming, I have the "Handloader" on line info and they have about 40 different loadings for the 351 WSL.
One concern is case wall thickness just south of the shoulder. I know from loading reworked 5.56 as 300 Blackout there's quite a difference, and stretching even further to 35 caliber probably doesn't help.
Edit: Rather than cutting back 5.56 brass a better approach seems to be either using 300 AAC Blackout brass or 221 Remington Fireball. 221 FB case length is listed as 1.4" and 300 AAC/Whisper listed as 1.365" - the 351 WSL case length is listed as 1.74". Taking a 22 caliber neck up to 35 caliber seems a stretch and 221 FB brass isn't cheap. AAC brass is easy to get, just wondering if thinner rim and shorter case length is too much variation.
In the past I've had problems trying to get shorter overall length. home brew cartridges to function in semiauto pistols.
Last time with a French 35 S pistol, using 32 ACP brass. Had to use pulled 7.62 X 25 bullets. For proper function.
It seems your 300 Blackout/Whisper brass, going to be 3/8" shorter than .351 brass. If you could fab some kind of spacer for the back of the magazine. Might help?
quote:Originally posted by dfletcher
Grafs and Western Bullet have plenty of .351 diameter bullets - kind of surprised me that bullets were easy to find.
I show base diameter for 351 and 5.56 as .377, rim diameter as .407 and .378 and rim thickness .05 and .045 in same order.
2400 was suggested for fireforming, I have the "Handloader" on line info and they have about 40 different loadings for the 351 WSL.
One concern is case wall thickness just south of the shoulder. I know from loading reworked 5.56 as 300 Blackout there's quite a difference, and stretching even further to 35 caliber probably doesn't help.
Edit: Rather than cutting back 5.56 brass a better approach seems to be either using 300 AAC Blackout brass or 221 Remington Fireball. 221 FB case length is listed as 1.4" and 300 AAC/Whisper listed as 1.365" - the 351 WSL case length is listed as 1.74". Taking a 22 caliber neck up to 35 caliber seems a stretch and 221 FB brass isn't cheap. AAC brass is easy to get, just wondering if thinner rim and shorter case length is too much variation.
In the past I've had problems trying to get shorter overall length. home brew cartridges to function in semiauto pistols.
Last time with a French 35 S pistol, using 32 ACP brass. Had to use pulled 7.62 X 25 bullets. For proper function.
It seems your 300 Blackout/Whisper brass, going to be 3/8" shorter than .351 brass. If you could fab some kind of spacer for the back of the magazine. Might help?
AAC brass goes 1.365" case length, 351 WSL as 1.374" - that's .009" difference. I put together some dummy rounds from 223 cases and so long as OAL is about 1.8" it fits the mag, functions fine. Of course the case headspaces on the mouth so if the case is too short - it will probably still fire because the hammer kits heavy as hell, but it's probably not good for accuracy.
I tried bringing 22 case necks up to 35 caliber, as would be done if I used 221 FB brass. Kind of a PITA. Had to do 6mm, 7mm, 30 cal & then 35 cal. Worked fine, just time consuming.
Edit: A "for real" 351 headspaces on the rim and the rim diameter is .410. The base diameter is about .380. Does anyone suppose a 30 Remington (or 25, 32 or 35) case would work? Rim diameter is .422, base diameter is .421 - will FL resizing take the base down to .380 and is a .012 larger rim diameter too much?
35 Rem is a different case. 25, 30 and 32 are the same family. I would bet you could press the brass into a sizing die and reduce the diameter, you will likely need to turn off the rim diameter.
Brain fart on the 35 Remington. I think I can handle trimming the rim. Given the weight of the 1907 "bolt" I think so long as I get the base diameter close the thing will slam closed.