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straw purchase question

joesjoes Member Posts: 484 ✭✭✭
edited October 2010 in Ask the Experts
Is it a straw purchase if I buy a rifle from one state through an FFL dealer (with all the necessary paper work and checks) and then transfer it to a parent in another state, also through an FFL dealer, again with all the proper paperwork and background checks? Does it matter if it is a gift or just a transfer?

Comments

  • joesjoes Member Posts: 484 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had someone buy a gun from me on the auction side. He has three "F" ratings in his recent history. He has not been truthful two times in our dealings to date. Now he is telling me he is buying the gun for a friend and put attn.......(friend's name) on the package ( I have requested an FFL and would never send without one and would only ship to the FFL). Is this a straw purchase? Thank you, Joe
  • AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 3,206 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As soon as he tells you he is buying the gun for some one else, it's a "straw purchase". (See question #1 on a 4473 form). You know about it and cannot complete the sale within the law. Proceed at your own risk!!
  • tsavo303tsavo303 Member Posts: 8,910 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    screw him just for his past dealings. i dont think you are really breaking the law, as you are not actually transferring it via 4473, but i would tell him to pound sand and not bid anymore
  • sharpshooter039sharpshooter039 Member Posts: 5,897 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If he is sending it to an FFL ,then it is the FFL'S responsability to get the proper paperwork "4473" filled out to the real buyer on that end. It does not matter who's account was used to bid on the gun. That would only matter if for some reason he was selling/sending it direct to the bidder. IMHO since he is sending it to a FFL with the future owners name on it, its legal
  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member Posts: 29,703 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can't understand why you didn't block the guy from bidding after his first "F".
  • andrewsw16andrewsw16 Member Posts: 10,728 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sharpshooter nailed it. It is not illegal to bid for a friend. Who knows, the friend may be someone without a computer. (NO, say it ain't so. [:D] ) The strawman statute would come into play when an FFL makes the final legal transfer to a buyer. If this dufus's friend shows up in person at the FFL and fills out a 4473 that receives a "Proceed", then, no harm, no foul on the transaction.
    On the other topic, I also agree. I'd block this guy from any future bidding on my stuff based on his past performance.
  • agostinoagostino Member Posts: 414 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've sent handguns for a buyer here in MD to Cabela's in his home state. His name also appears on the outside of the package so they know who to expect. I've received guns the same way. It's a common practice. It's up to the FFL to complete the transaction properly.
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    HOWEVER- while the FFL that does the 4473 does have responsibilities, if person A pays for the gun, but has it shipped to a dealer for person B, my advice is run like crazy. You are being drawn in to a potential conspiracy, whether or not you are a dealer. ATF just prosecuted a seller in Texas for a "Straw man" sale to an illegal alien. That seller was not a dealer. If it stinks, don't step in it. Tell him to pound sand, give him a neg, block him, relist. IT AIN'T WORTH THE HASSLE YOU CAN BE IN.
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by sharpshooter039
    If he is sending it to an FFL ,then it is the FFL'S responsability to get the proper paperwork "4473" filled out to the real buyer on that end. It does not matter who's account was used to bid on the gun. That would only matter if for some reason he was selling/sending it direct to the bidder. IMHO since he is sending it to a FFL with the future owners name on it, its legal


    ive been wondering about this. ive got friend in PA that knows even less about computers then i do ( is that possible??) and has no interest in looking things up on here. but hes been wanting a semi auto 308 rifle if i can find a deal for him. if i bid on an auction and gave the seller all my friends info for the rifle to be sent to my friends ffl in Pa this would be legal?
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Josh- if HE pays for it, and intends to have it for himself, then he is (question on the 4473) the actual buyer.
  • dfletcherdfletcher Member Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by joes
    I had someone buy a gun from me on the auction side. He has three "F" ratings in his recent history. He has not been truthful two times in our dealings to date. Now he is telling me he is buying the gun for a friend and put attn.......(friend's name) on the package ( I have requested an FFL and would never send without one and would only ship to the FFL). Is this a straw purchase? Thank you, Joe


    The straw purchase would or would not occur at the receiving FFL's gun store and the act of committing the straw purchase would or would not occur at that point. At this point all you're doing is transferring the gun to a Type 01 FFL for subsequent sale.

    It can be complicated, but it is entirely legal for Person A to purchase a firearm for Person B so long as certain conditions are met and so long as the person for whom the firearm is being purchased is not legally prohibited from purchasing the firearm themself. The problem you have for now is you have no way of knowing if the buyer is being truthful or deceitful. But to turn around what they say in financial markets (sort of) "past performance is an indication of future returns ...."

    The guy doesn't have a good track record, I presume he didn't tell you he was buying for his pal (I would have mentioned it before bidding, it is different) and although not a straw purchase at this point, I'd kiss him goodbye and stop the deal. Who knows what future problems pop up in the deal - his "friend" doesn't like the gun and he wants his $$$ back?
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