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ww2 arisaka need help heres pics

brunette63brunette63 Member Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
edited October 2010 in Ask the Experts

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  • brunette63brunette63 Member Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    sorry if pics rnt right. still trying to figure this all out. but neways i got it from my gpa whos brother gave 2 him. he was in the navy and i heard they would take the bolts then give them back. but they werent always matching with gun. gun bayonet mark is 585 along with last digits of serial number. bolt number is 435, saftey knob number 435, fireing pin is 435. so im guessing he got an earlywar bolt does this sound right?
  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member Posts: 29,702 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • FatstratFatstrat Member Posts: 9,147
    edited November -1
    Yessir. You have a Last Ditch rifle w/a mismatched early model bolt. Very common on Arisaka's. Your info is correct that while aboard ship, it was common practice that the bolts were removed from souvenir rifles. Then returned upon leaving ship at U.S. port. But re-matching serial numbers was often overlooked.
    Mis-matched bolts are (except for being sporterized) the #1 thing that causes a drop in value. However this does not mean that the rifle is without collector value. It IS a piece of WW-2 history.
    As stated before, with it being a Last Ditch. I would discourage attempting to fire the rifle. Many people do fire LD rifles. But there is the possibility that it might blow up due to poor metalurgy and workmanship in MFG. Also the mis-matched bolt presents the possibility of bad headspacing between the bolt face and chamber. Which could increase the unsafe factor.
    AS a family heirloom, I would suggest making a "Wall Hanger" tribute to your family members WW-2 service.
    As for value, I would guess that it would be somewhere in the $200. range. Gun sales and values are pretty soft right now the poor economy. Probably the best way to determine current value would be to watch the auction here on Gunbroker. Find a mismatched LD rifle (probably doesn't matter if same Arsenal/Series) in approx same condition. And see what it SELLS FOR. Remember that the buyer will be paying shipping and likely FFL receiver fees. Which can be added to what he actually paid to acquire the rifle. Probably adding about $50. to the winning bid price. And therefore sale value price.
    Hope this helps. Please feel free to ask any further questions you might have.
  • brunette63brunette63 Member Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    thanks. i totally had forgot that he was in the navy and i couldnt figure out why the bolt was different. if i were to buy another arisaka that could be a shooter what would u suggest?
  • FatstratFatstrat Member Posts: 9,147
    edited November -1
    I would certainly suggest an earlier Type 99. One made prior to 1944.
    Check out the rifle in this auction and note the obvious differences between it and your last ditch.
    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=195787841
    The full length handguard is the most obvious. If you can find a T-99 in good condition (preferably w/matching numbers) that has the full length handguard, you should be good to go to the range.
    Now there were LOTS of variations during the 5 year T-99 production run. Which is what makes them an interesting collectible. There were 3 basic variations. Early (up to about mid 1942 mfg) which is most desirable and of best quality. And included a long cleaning rod, Anti Aircraft sights, steel buttplate, and monopod.
    Then there are the mid war (late 1942 to early 1944) "Transitional" Substitute T-99. (Note that both Transitional and Last Ditch T-99's are referred to as "Substitute") These will still have the full handgurd. But will have mixtures of several of the EARLY accessories omitted. Such as the Steel buttplate, AA sights, monopod. And will have a shorter cleaning rod. May or may not have rougher machining on parts such as the safety knob. These are still considered of decent quality and safe to fire. They key being that the MFG quality is in TRANSITION between the high quality early rifles. And the LOW quality late rifles.
    Then of coarse the late war Last Ditch. Which you are familiar with.
    If your grandfathers Last Ditch holds no heirloom value to you. You may be able to get a decent trade for it at a gunshow. Last ditch rifles, even tho of unsafe to fire quality, tend to have the same approx collector value as similar condition earlier rifles. So theoretically, you should be able to trade nearly even for a mis-matched, (perhaps ground MUM) earlier configuration rifle.
    ( you almost always have to offer some incentive money on trades. Unless you find a collector who wants your particular series/configuration rifle). Of coarse if you trade UP to a matching rifle, you will likely have to pay a cash difference for difference in value.
    Originally is KEY in determining value. Mumed and matching is most valueable. Ground Mum, but still matching is next. If numbers are not matching, mumed or ground makes no difference on the 3rd level. And of coarse sporterized, or refinished in ANY way, destroys ALL collector value. Hope this helps.
  • FatstratFatstrat Member Posts: 9,147
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by brunette63
    thanks. i totally had forgot that he was in the navy and i couldnt figure out why the bolt was different. if i were to buy another arisaka that could be a shooter what would u suggest?

    P.S. Pulling and storing the bolts while aboard ship was common for ALL souvenir rifles. Regardless of branch of service. Generally it was up to the discretion of the ships captain. Who tended to take a dim view of unauthorized armed passengers aboard ship.
    Another interesting point. The bulk of naval personel, serving aboard ships, did not have much opportunity to acquire (Land) battlefield souvenirs. There were 4 ways they commonly did. 1st: Trade for or buy them from the Marine who brought it aboard ship. 2nd: Steal it from the Marine. 3rd: The ship Captain would sometimes wait until at sea. Then declare souvenir weapons illegal aboard HIS ship and confiscate them. Sometimes these would later be distributed amoung the crew. (as bad as #'s 2 & 3 sound, it did happen). And 4th. Pick one up after the war from piles set aside for American troops to pick souvenirs from. In the 4th option, these nearly always had the Mum ground off.
  • brunette63brunette63 Member Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i plan on keeping it and buyinga n early model. how much do they usually go for. isnt there a 6.5x5x somethin. i hear ammo is a horrible to find and expensive to
  • bingeebobbingeebob Member Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    here is a nice early one

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=194350558

    if I had the cash, I might just buy that one
  • brunette63brunette63 Member Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    yeah just saw that one but i dont know what ffl is or c and r. ive never bought nething offline. i more the type 2 buy in person
    im also worried bout the ammo
  • FatstratFatstrat Member Posts: 9,147
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by brunette63
    i plan on keeping it and buyinga n early model. how much do they usually go for. isnt there a 6.5x5x somethin. i hear ammo is a horrible to find and expensive to

    Yes, there was the Type 38 in 6.5 MM Jap. And there were several variations of the Type 38. The T-38 LONG. The T-38 Carbine. The T-44 Cavalry Carbine. And the Type I (letter I, not #1.). The Type I was a 6.5 contract rifle made by Beretta in Italy.
    The Type 38 was the Japanese main battle rifle from 1905 to 1939/40. It was replaced by the larger bore, more powerfull T-99 just prior to WW-2. Reports differ as to if 1940 or 41.
    Ammo is not as hard to get or expensive as it used to be. It used to be that only Norma made it. And it was expensive. But now there are some new MFG. And there is the option (that I generally use) of buying much cheaper reloaded ammo at gunshows.
    For values/prices, again I refer you to the auction side of GB. Watch what various models in various conditions actually SELL for. It's the best way to get a handle on real time values.
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