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UPDATE ON STOLEN GUN I ASK YOU GUYS INFO ON

jerry batemanjerry bateman Member Posts: 304 ✭✭✭
edited October 2010 in Ask the Experts
Hi guys that helped me with advice etc. on what to do on the $2,900 Colt that I was the UNLUCKY winner of on Gun Broker auction. I have had a very wonderful ATF. agent in Indiana working on this stolen gun. My ATF. agent got a Police report from Texas that the gun was STOLEN in Dallas, Texas in 1988, my Agent is sending me a Police report on this in the mail. I already have a Police report from Tenn. where I shipped the gun, and Tenn. bureau of Investigation confiscated it. The gun is now back in Texas, hopefully in the original owners hands. I immediately phoned the Pawn shop in Georgia that sold me the gun on the Gun Broker auction. THE PAWN SHOP WAS VERY VERY UNCOOPERATIVE, so I called Cabela's Visa Dispute Dept., who I paid the $2,900 for the HOT gun and opened a case. I have been reading and doing what you wonderful guys have advised me to do. Thank again guys and Please give me all the advice and help you can.

Comments

  • jerry batemanjerry bateman Member Posts: 304 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Colt Diamondback that I bought on Gun Broker turned out it was stolen in Texas. Tennessee where I shipped the gun to a customer, Tenn. has what they call TBI. stands for Tennessee Bureau of investigation, when you ship a gun to Tennessee, the serial goes to TBI. and they check the Serial No. of every gun shipped into Tenn. and they immediately confiscate all guns that are on the NCIC. stolen list. The dealer where I shipped the gun said the NCIC. comes and gets about 2 guns a month that are shipped to him. I called the ATF. in Indiana, and they said dealers in Indiana don't have access to the NCIC. to check on stolen guns. I contacted the Pawn shop that sold me the gun on Gun Broker, he told me it had been in his books for 25 years untill I bought it from him in 2007. Luckly I bought it with my Cabelas Visa card, and I will be covered to get my money back even if the Pawn shop doesn't give me my $2,900 back. Most dealers are not shipping guns to Cal., Mass. etc. Tenn. is never metioned, I have been shipping to all 50 states, but now I am scared to ship to Tenn.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,105 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    WOW that is a very interesting bit of information. Hard to believe that your pistol is the same pistol and any PAWN shop would have had an item 25 years. I really wonder if it could have been 2 Guns that were different models but same serial Number[?][?]. any way THANKS for the update.
  • Wolf.Wolf. Member Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is just my opinion and advice....not trying to nose into your business:

    If I were you, I would ask the local police to run the numbers on the gun with NCIC to confirm that the revolver comes up stolen. They should do this for you out of courtesy, just so you can confirm on your end that the gun does show as stolen. Whether it comes back clean, or stolen from that check, I'd contact the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation to find out personally, first hand, what they have to say about the situation. Of course, if it comes back clean from your check, you have another issue to deal with.

    If you can confirm that the gun actually does show being stolen, I would contact the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and give them all the particulars, to see if they'll go out and heat things up at the pawn shop. Similarly, I would contact the police and district attorney's office in the city in Georgia where this pawn shop exists and get some additional action going on them. I'd also contact BATFE in the office closest to the pawn shop and see about them joining the gang and paying a visit to the pawn shop. Sounds to me like this pawn shop is the root of this issue. See if you can get one of those agencies to confirm that the gun "has been on the books" at that place for 25 years. Pawn shops, notorious as money grubbers, would/should have sold a premium gun like that years ago, so the reason for them not selling it for all those years is what?.......Take a WAG. Something about this smells bad. If someone took advantage of me like that, I'd certainly turn the heat up on them in return, if I could.

    Yeah, I hope you are able to recoup your money. Your Cabellas Mastercard(?) should be able to ding the pawn shop's account for the money to, in turn, recoup what they pay back to you.

    Interesting story.
  • mrs102mrs102 Member Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Something else doesn't sound right. This Tennesee dealer is losing two guns a month to TBI?? What kind of volume is he doing to lose that many firearms a month? When a firearm is queried in NCIC it is by serial number. If the inquiring agency gets a "hit" it is their responsibility to match the description on the "hit" with the firearm they are inquiring about. Serial numbers are repeated within manufacturers models and among different manufacturers. When a firearm is entered the make, model, caliber/gauge, serial number are required fields and the other descriptive info can be listed but not unlimited. When the inquiring agency gets a hit, the entering agency is notified of the "hit" and its up to them to compare notes and see to it that it's one and the same.

    $2900 sounds like alot of money for a Diamondback, was it a special or limited production piece?
  • jerry batemanjerry bateman Member Posts: 304 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi Guys
    My $2,900 Colt Diamondback is a 6" Electroless Nickel 22 cal, it is the only one I have ever seen. The ATF in Indiana ran the Serial no. but would not tell me anything, like it was a big secret. My customer who was buying the gun from me said the Serial No. was checked 3 times. I am being held in DARK, No one has yet contacted me on this ENTIRE MATTER I have found out what I know by calling the dealer in TENN. where I shipped the gun, and my customer who was buying the gun. I still don't have a Police REPORT.
    Thanks guy I reall APPERICATE the concern and HELP.
    No more guns will I ship to TENN.
  • jeffb1911jeffb1911 Member Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You could try opening a fraud investigation on your end if you are not getting good answers from them. Just because NCIC says it's a hit does not necessarily mean that is the same gun.

    FWIW, whenever i take a gun into the shop, i ALWAYS run it before actually completing the deal. Out of all the guns that showed a hit at first, only 2 or 3 were actually the stolen gun we were looking for.
  • givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886
    edited November -1
    2nd post and all thus far is word-of-mouth.

    The longer that the [absence of a paper trail] remains, the more dubious I become.

    You've already thought of this, I'm sure, and that is to tell the buyer that not a penny will be surrendered until you have PD paperwork, and are satisfied with the authenticity of such. Best, Joe
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,883 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wouldn't worry about shipping guns to TN; when we buy any gun that doesn't come from a distributor, there will always be a possibility that it has been stolen sometime in its life. Any PD in any state may have reason to check the SN of a gun we sold, & we just have to deal with the problem if it occurs.

    The way this usually works, the PD that identifies a gun as stolen is responsible for documenting the original theft (based on the original police report & owners documentation), & returning the gun to the PD in the jurisdiction in which it was stolen. TBI has the responsibility in this case. YOU ARE THE VICTIM, even if you get reimbursed by your credit card company; you should file a report with your local PD, & ask them to deal with TBI on evidence.

    I'm with the guys ---- the facts of this case sound, well, worth investigating. Interstate transportation of a stolen firearm falls within the ATF's purview. If I were you, I would immediately contact the local ATF office, ask to speak to a supervisory agent in the firearms area, & request them to initiate an investigation. You don't want to get in a position where, in 6 months, ATF tells you, "Why didn't you talk to us before?"

    Neal
  • dfletcherdfletcher Member Posts: 8,172 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jerry bateman
    The Colt Diamondback that I bought on Gun Broker turned out it was stolen in Texas. Tennessee where I shipped the gun to a customer, Tenn. has what they call TBI. stands for Tennessee Bureau of investigation, when you ship a gun to Tennessee, the serial goes to TBI. and they check the Serial No. of every gun shipped into Tenn. and they immediately confiscate all guns that are on the NCIC. stolen list. The dealer where I shipped the gun said the NCIC. comes and gets about 2 guns a month that are shipped to him. I called the ATF. in Indiana, and they said dealers in Indiana don't have access to the NCIC. to check on stolen guns. I contacted the Pawn shop that sold me the gun on Gun Broker, he told me it had been in his books for 25 years untill I bought it from him in 2007. Luckly I bought it with my Cabelas Visa card, and I will be covered to get my money back even if the Pawn shop doesn't give me my $2,900 back. Most dealers are not shipping guns to Cal., Mass. etc. Tenn. is never metioned, I have been shipping to all 50 states, but now I am scared to ship to Tenn.




    The CA system is less precise and directed at checking the CA FFL only, not the sender nor the gun. Interesting to note, if this gun had been sent to CA (in general it couldn't be because it's not on the "CA OK" list - a different PITA to deal with [:(])it would have sailed through the system and not been caught.

    Good to hear you'll be covered by your card. Every once in a while I think of breaking my "buy with cc only rule" and this helps reinforce.
  • jerry batemanjerry bateman Member Posts: 304 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Latest up date on Stolen gun I bought on Gun Broker.
    Sheriff in Tenn. still hasn't mailed me a copy of the Police Report. The Pawn shop in Georgia that sold it on Gun Broker, is very uncooperative when I call them. I also have my local ATF. agent working on the case. It looks like it will take a long time to finalize the mess.
    Thanks to all of you guys for the help.
  • wpagewpage Member Posts: 10,201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds like someone from Cabella's should be on it as well...
    Something is untrue. Please keep us posted who is corrupt here!
  • jerry batemanjerry bateman Member Posts: 304 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello W.PAGE
    I haven't turned it over to Cabela's Visa yet, I am waiting to see if the Pawn shop is going to make it right after I get a Police report etc. When I turn it into Cabela's I look for it to take Cabela's for ever to get my money back. About 6 weeks ago I bought a $750 gun from an FFL. holder in New York that goes by the name of Discoveries, they poorly boxed the gun, stock got busted, I called the woman at Discoveries and she told me I will have to collect on the Postal Insurance she purchased. I told her I was going to take the gun to the Post office so the Post office can send the broken gun back to her, the gun stayed at my Post Office for at least a month. I filed the proper paper work with Cabela's to get the charge taken off my credit card. It is almost like Cabela's and Discoveries are working together against me. I can't seem to make Cabela's understand what has happened.
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,038 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ""and they check the Serial No. of every gun shipped into Tenn. and they immediately confiscate all guns that are on the NCIC. stolen list. The dealer where I shipped the gun said the NCIC. comes and gets about 2 guns a month that are shipped to him.""

    BS !!! The checking of serial numbers is up to the receiving FFL. Two guns a month !!!
    This guy has a scam going on.
  • ShootingAgainShootingAgain Member Posts: 46 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    John and Martha King, well known aviation instructors, got jacked up out in California several weeks ago when they landed, because the serial number on the plane they were came back to some agency that had knowledge of their flight plan as stolen.

    The number belonged to a Cessna 150 that had been stolen in Texas a number of years ago and never recovered. They were in a fairly new Cessna 172 that had been reissued the number. And it was the SECOND time it had happened to that particular aircraft.

    Different item, but similar mess?
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