Black Powder Rifle Problem

Matt45 · November 2001

Some of y'all may have read about my above and beyond fortune in dealing with a new to me gun shop I posted in Gen. Discussion....I think I may still have a problem.I have a T/C Renegade in .54 Cal. that I picked up used for under $180.00. Problem was when i went out and shot it, the rifling in the barrel only felt like it would grip the first 6" or so of the barrel then resistance was only felt in the last 6-8" or so. I took it back to the dealer who, not only gave me a replacement barrel of the shelf, sent it to a shop to have it blued, and had his in-house 'smith install it as well as a new rib, breech hook & such.WOW, great, awesome.It took the rifle out yesterday and I thought the barrel was never changed. I checked though, and there was a distinctive mar on the blueing of the old barrel which was gone.What now? The rifling still seems to only grip and provide resistance for the first 7-9" of barrel and then only minimal resistance until the last 6-8", where there is the normal amount of resistance.Any guesses?FYI- All that I have shot out of the new barrel was 8 .535 lead balls, all using .018 or .016 Ox-Yoke Wonder ticking patches with TC Bore Butter Natural Lube 1000 Plus. This was tamped into the rifle until the rod bounced on top of 80 Gr. of GOEX FFF.

Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!!

nunn · November 2001

How does it shoot?

Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!

Matt45 · November 2001

Oh, yeah...the core of the problem.....ALL over the place.2- 3 ball iterations @ 30 yds, same sight picture, same stance, same hold, min group 8", scattered. No pattern printed.

Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!!

Da-Tank · November 2001

Some people use pyrodex. Not a problem, except they put the second igniter downwhen using two loads. You should scrape it off or put it up. Seems if its down it fires off about mid barrel. Think about it.

Tony Barnes · November 2001

Before you give up on it try Maxi balls or Buffalo mini balls. Try FFg powder instead of FFFg. 90 to 100 grain load. All else fails send it back to the factory, from personal experience they will bend over backwards to help you.

jonk · November 2001

I have noticed this effect on many, many barrels when I slug them. I don't know what causes it. I agree though, try some hollow base bullets such as Mini Balls and the expansion of the skirt under the powder burn should solve your problem.

"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conference in 1899.

Matt45 · November 2001

Da Tank- This a a brand new barrel from the factory that was in the white before it was sent off to be blued and installed on my rifle- I don't use pyrodex so I don't think that the situation you described would apply here. Thanks for your input though!Tony & Jonk- I agree, in theory that sounds like it may solve most of the problem and most likely will. The only problem with that solution is that I still want to shoot the thing recreationally and Maxi-balls are a little cost prohibitive (especially when compared to a box of 100 round balls). I don't know much about TC and thier cust. service...Do they warranty thier rifles for life? Do they warranty the rifle if I bought it used? Is this gonna end up costing me more $$$?

Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!!

buddyb · November 2001

I have a .54 Renegade and use Maxi-Balls over 110 grains of Pyrodex.It shoots about 4 inch groups with open sights at 100 yards.As far as Maxi-Ball cost,I bought a T\C mold and every few years will cast a few hundred.The mold will pay for itself and provide you with enough bullets to practice and become a pretty good shot.

roundball · November 2001

I've used various T/C Arms muzzloaders for 15 years, still do; I have Hawkens in various calibers, and the barrel engineering is are the same as for the Renegades; I use T/C Arms products, and PyrodexRS powder exclusivly, and all rifles in all calibers are tack drivers. A few comments:1) All projectiles, balls & conicals, meet the most resistance during initial travel until they are well engraved then they slide down the barrel easier;2) I don't understand how you could have had a T/C Arms factory barrel "in the white" as they are not made available outside factory production in that condition;3) T/C Arms has been absolutely outstanding in supporting warranty work whenever I needed it...very rare, only twice;4) If the rifle you're considering sending back to them was not a factory production barrel, or has been worked on by a gunsmith, or modified from factory production condition at all, then I doubt they'll feel obligated to look at your situation as a warranty issue;Personally, based upon your entire description above, and all the years of T/C Arms rifles I've acquired and shot year round, I'm not sure you have a barrel problem; Try T/C Arms recommended .530 diameter ball (I use Hornady & Speer .530) and T/C Arms pre-lubed .015 patches, anywhere from 50-120 grains of Pyrodex RS, from a bench rest and the rifle should deliver tight groups...not many people, don't care how good they think they are, can experiment with a new rifle and various load recipes by standing and shooting offhand and expect to get tight groups;All of my .45's, .50's, and .54's will have occasional holes touching at 50yard with the ingredients and approach I suggested...can't believe you'd have 2 barrels from the premiere T/C Arms muzzleloader company that were bad...good luck.

Matt45 · November 2001

Buddyb-That's not a bad idea, I have a pal who casts his own 9mm and .45, I'll have to talk to him....roundball-I am positive of what I saw/ had installed on my rifle with my own two eyes and that is a TC factory replacement barrel for a Renegade. Understand though that the gunstore where I purchashed this Rifle ans subsequently had the barrel replaced has been in operation for about the last 64 years give or take a year. I can assure you that the barrel is a TC Renegade barrel and was in the white. It was also in a TC box, along with a breech hook, rib and screws, all in the white.Additionally, I also understand the basics of marksmanship,as I am a graduate of a US Army sniper course. Both of my 3 round attempts to sight in the rifle were done from the prone supported position. I too have seen lot's of guys pick up a new to them firearms, dump two mags out of it and come to the conclusion it's the gun, not them.The reason I purchashed a TC is the reputation preceding them. I don't think that two barrels in a row could be faulty. But I do know that the first barrel was way out of "spec", when I say the ball "lost the rifling" I mean it! After starting the ball, and pushing it 6" or so further with the ramrod, the ball would fall freely to about the last 6-8". This second barrel does not seem as near as bad, and I was wondering if was simply the lands and grooves cutting into the ball, but was not sure. One of the other questions I have is that is it the norm for the rifling to get "tighter" nearer the breech?Also, you seem very up to speed on TC and their cust. service...do you possibly have any idea as to what their warranty policy is? My main concern is that I am not the original owner of the firearm.

Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!!

ATF · November 2001

Thompson Center Products,(guns and scopes) are guaranteed for LIFE even if you bought it used.The factory is located about 35 to 40 miles from me.

ATF

Black Powder Rifle Problem

Comments