In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

Problem with FFL dealer

beantolebeantole Member Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭
edited November 2001 in Ask the Experts
I sold an SKS on the auction boards to a man in Colorado. He sent me an original FFL license signed in blue ink and told me to ship the SKS rifle to the FFL dealer in Colorado. I took the SKS to the U.S. Post office and showed them the FFL license from Colorado. and shipped the firearm to the FFL dealer in Colorado. Now the FFL dealer who I shipped the firearm to won't give the SKS to the person who purchased it from me because the FFL holder says he has to have an FFL from MYdealer. In other words, he has told the buyer that he cannot accept any firearms except from another FFL dealer. I am not an FFL licensee. I think this is all incorrect and not the law. Am I rightor wrong? If I am right how can the man who purchased my SKS get it if the FFL holder I shipped the gun to refuses to give it to him?Thanks for any help.
Bruce
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • gap1916gap1916 Member Posts: 4,977
    edited November -1
    The FFL dealeer that is holding the rifle by law is stealing the rifle. There is no Federal law that requires a FFL Holder to send a rifle to another FFL Holder. Check with the BATF if you have any questions. Now for state law i have no idea.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most of the dealers that I have dealt with here on this site do business the same way as your Colorado dealer. Both the sending and receiving dealers want each other's FFL. However, the dealer you are working with should have been more specific and as such I would demand that he send it back to you, which he will refuse to do because you dont have an FFL. That being said I would contact the ATF and lodge a complaint against that dealer and his way of doing buisness, I would also contact the postal service, as I am sure he is in violation of some postal law.
    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nmyers@home.comnmyers@home.com Member Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This problem comes up on this forum every month or so. Many people, including dealers, find the law so confusing that they make mistakes. In this case, you are 100% correct, and the dealer needs to be enlightened.I would first phone the licensee and request that he read his copy of Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide (ATF P5300.4), page 135, question B1: "To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her State, if the buyer is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a firearm, or to a licensee in any State."Also ask him to look at page 70, Firearms Acquisition and Disposition Record (which he must complete). Under "Receipt", data required is "Date" and "Name and address or name and license No." Of course, he has your name and address. If, after reading it in the regs, he still refuses to deliver the gun, request that he call his local BATF office to ask an agent to explain to him how to handle the situation. If he refuses to do that, then YOU phone his local BATF and speak to an agent.I am confident that this will correct the problem.Neal
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • smgsmg Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The dealer should not have given his signed FFL to the buyer he should have sent his FFL to another FFL so the gun could be shipped legaly if I am not mistaken it is ilegal to ship a gun unless it is going to a gunsmith or the factory for repairs or upgrades I think at this point you should contact the ATF and see if you can't resolve the problem hey with the gun laws as confusing as they are anyone can make a mistake
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HerschelHerschel Member Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry smg, you are mistaken. Read Neal's thorough and correct post above.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • beantolebeantole Member Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thank you all (especially Neal) for your responses. I thought the CO FFL dealer was mistaken. I am about at the point of giving up selling or buying any firearms over the web. Again thank you all for your responses and information. It is much appreciated.
    Bruce
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • KirkstoneKirkstone Member Posts: 18 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Colo. dealer: His license, his business, his rules, his butt when ATF comes to call. True, it's not what the law says, but he can be more strict if he chooses to.That said, his big mistake was that he didn't make it PERFECTLY CLEAR to the fella buying your rifle that he would only accept a shipment from another FFL. The biggest advantage of FFL to FFL transfers is that it expedites the return process if the buyer decides during the inspection period that the firearm is not as described and wants to send it back.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • fergusonmorse392fergusonmorse392 Member Posts: 432 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    try calling the FFL , (keeping your cool!!) ask him what is stopping the transfer? what law or regulation? state or federal? if his answer is BATF, in a nice way tell him that you contacted BATF, and it is not necessary, ask him to call them to verify. OR get the buyer to do this!!!! other option is to get an FFL on your end to send him a copy. I WOULD ALSO ASK GUNBROKER ADMIN TO GET INTO IT!!....... [This message has been edited by fergusonmorse392 (edited 11-27-2001).]
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HerschelHerschel Member Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    fergusonmorse392, I think asking a ffl dealer on the sending end to provide an ffl would be a serious imposition. He would have to log the gun into his books and show transfer out to the receiving ffl. That would be a fraudulent entry as he had never had the gun. I am a dealer and try to accomodate buyers and seller but there is no way I would provide a license as you suggest.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • jacksvjacksv Member Posts: 35 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would contact the ATF and the Secretary of State in his State. It seems he is clearly trying to screw you. But before I did it I would ask him one more time to make the transfer and if he doesn't you owe it to him to let him know of your intentions. All the FFL's on this board will be pissed at me but right is right.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Interesting, under this scenario this FFL holder never buys used guns from individual sellers, since they do not have a FFL. I think not. This FFL holder is either ignorant of the law, or he is trying to defraud you. If the latter is the case, he needs to be reported ASAP to the BATF. Come to think about it, either way he needs to be reported.Boomer
    Protect our Constitutional Rights.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • kaboomkaboom Member Posts: 75 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Kirkstone - Yeah, it's his FFL, his business, and his butt, but that doesn't give him the right to steal a rifle. Anyway, he's lying about the law, and if he had some valid reason for not delivering the gun to the buyer he wouldn't need to lie about it.It's been a few years since I turned in my FFL, so I went to the BATF website to make sure the law is still the same, and it is. A non-licensee can legally ship a firearm to a licensee in another state, or to another non-licensee in his/her own state. Handguns can't be shipped by U.S. mail. That FFL is either ignorant of the law or a liar. He's probably thinking the buyer doesn't know the BATF regs and figures he won't hire a lawyer over a $200 rifle. If I was the buyer I would call his hand if it cost me 20 times what the gun is worth in legal fees.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • MrAngryMrAngry Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Kaboom,You just answered the ? I posted a few minutes ago. Now where do I find it on the BATF site? I don't like the idea of people being made to think that ALL the gun laws have been changed. I have had people state to me that there is no longer "private party" sales in CA and that isn't true. I bought 2 handguns on the same day and both sales went through. The 30 day wait between handgun purchases here was bypassed by the 2nd gun being a private party transfer through the FFL it was consigned to.Joe
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pops401pops401 Member Posts: 616 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Go to GB honepage and click on "how do I sell". Then click on "firearms shipping guide". Should answer all your questions.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
Sign In or Register to comment.