odd cartridges

dr.dirt

recently acquired several odd cartriges and brass, would like to know something about them, including value. 505 gibs, 405 win.,50-70 unfired brass 45? and 41? rimfire. two in particular, they look like a cone shaped brass with the lead on the large end, and a hole punched in the small end. looks like a firing pin hole. help is always appreciated..dave

wilmamae

Your cone shaped rounds sound like they go to the Burnside carbine from the Civil War. It is a drop block breach loader that is ignited by a percussion cap.The large ring on the bullet end was supposed to secure the case in the chamber but quite aften the whole thing went down range.I bought mine back in the '70's and paid around $20.00 for it.If you would like to talk more---- swanie@ptialaska.net

paul1231

The 505 gibbs, 405 Win, and 50-70 and the 41RF (Swiss) are not rare or unique. I'm wondering why a cartridge expert hasn't landed on this yet?

turbo

The 405 Win was developed for the Win Mdl 1895 lever action rifle, became obsolete in 1936. With a 300 grain bullet it is only slightly less powerful than the 375 H&H magnum. The short, fat 300 grain roundnosed bullet, loses velocity rapidly and lacks the sectional density necessary for deep penetration of heavy game, however was considered adequate for North American animals at 100-150 yards.The 50-70 Musket,(50 Govt), was used by the US military from 1866-1873. It was the 1st centerfire vartridge in general use by the military and was derived from the 50-60-400 Josyln rimfire. It was said to be effective on buffalo and other heavy game, It was the early popularity of this cartridge that indiced Winchester to bring out the 50-110, which was an improved and more powerfull version of the 50-70.No sporting rifles have been made to chamber this round since the early 1900's, however there are still some rifles still available. There is also a Carbine version with a shorter case (1.35 instead of 1.94 inches).I pulled this info from an old book I have on Obselete american cartridges, I know for a fact the 50-70 is still made , Cause I purchased 20 new cases from the auction site, here in the problem with old cases is that they changed the primer size, and the old cases wont fit the new primers on the market, the rear markings "r" was designated for Rifle and "C" for the Carbine. I own three Springfield trapdoors all early Allen Conversion's and 50 cal., workin on them to make them shootable, there is a 50 cal shooters club that sponsors regular shoots.As for the burnsides I know I had some info on that cartridge, but couldn't find it. Hope this helps ya..[This message has been edited by turbo (edited 12-02-2001).]

dr.dirt

thanks for the replies,any info is always helpfull. dont really know much about old brass, but I have a shoebox full to go through. thanks again.....dave

turbo

As for the 505 Gibbs was a Rimless Magnum Cartridge, for use in Mauser type bolt action magazine rifles (they were imported) Most of these big bore nitro cartridges were developed around 1910 and this one was still available until quite recently. It was considered needlessly large and to powerfull for North American game.

Iconoclast

Dave -I collect & deal in ammo; so far I would concur w/ the IDs that have been posted. Feel free to contact me at tcg25@hotmail.com if you need assistance.