Winchester 94 Spruce Rifle 1917 US & Flaming Bomb

Texas Bear

I recently obtained one of the Winchester 94, made in 1917, that has the US Army marking on the receiver top showing the US stamp and what is known as the Flaming Bomb mark. The information I have indicates only that 1,800 W94's were purchased by the Army in 1917. The marking are authentic as viewed under magnification and the Serial Number is in the correct range. I have read that someone is keeping a list of the serial numbers of these rifles that are known to exist now. Does anyone know the individual or organization that is keeping that list? [?]

perry shooter

Wait for BERT H to answer your question or look at top few STICKY post and double click on his user name and send him a personal email. Spider Cartol or some of the others may also know.

Bert H.

That would be me[:0] (and Rick Hill). I have a list of authentic Spruce Guns that contains (133) serial numbers (thus far).

Fatstrat

I've never heard of these. Would enjoy some pics if possible.

tsr1965

Bert would be the man. He actually sent me, VIA e-mail, a very nice article on the Spruce guns. I think that article would make a good sticky post. It is very informative, on how the Spruce guns came about.

Best

EDIT 1

you were describing your rifle's condition

quote:The condition of mine is very good. The gumwood has a small amount of shrinkage, mainly at the bottom of the butt plate (which is normal for gumwood) and has a recent varnish finish. Barrel & Magazine almost complete bluing, receiver a (small) speckled silver patina, few very minor dings, rifling in the 8/9 range. Of course this is an owners description, not a buyers.
That is not a good thing...that just killed it right there, if the finnish is not original.

Best

Bert H.

The link below will take you to the article that Rick Hill (past President of the Winchester Arms Collectors Association) wrote a few years ago. In the time since that article was written, Rick and I have been updating the list of known serial numbers. Some of the very late guns on the list in the article are fakes.

http://www.winchestercollector.org/guns/w-mil.shtml

I have (in an excel spreadsheet) a current up-to-date list of all the verified Spruce Gun serial numbers, and my list also contains the Polishing Room Serialization Record Book dates for each.

Edit: Serial number 846928 is listed in the PRSRB as March 26th, 1917. I believe that I have a few good pictures of the martial (ordnance) markings. As for authenticating a Spruce Gun, the serial number is the first step, then examining the location of the ordnance markings, and the specific type of marking. Many of the fakes can be quickly identified by the way they are marked (and I would prefer not to publish that information for the not so honest people to read). Send me a PM and I will discuss it privately with thoee who are interested.

Texas Bear

The article Burt referenced is what I had read and now I know to send the complete SN to him. This W94, SN 846928, shows to be a March 1917 Polishing Room Serialization Record Book date, is in the correct range according to the article. The patina & wear of the US & Flaming Bomb match that of the other stamps on the rifle and is definitely an old stamping not an engraving as forgeries tend to be. It might be helpful to give any information regarding what is needed to authenticate one of these besides what some small collector (like me) "asserts" to be true. [:)]

In the article, the picture of the Flaming Bomb does not show clearly. The following site shows a better picture of the Flame above the Bomb.
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=37485

The condition of mine is very good. The gumwood has a small amount of shrinkage, mainly at the bottom of the butt plate (which is normal for gumwood) and has a recent varnish finish. Barrel & Magazine almost complete bluing, receiver a (small) speckled silver patina, few very minor dings, rifling in the 8/9 range. Of course this is an owners description, not a buyers. [:D]

Thanks for the help. Don

Bert H.

quote:Originally posted by Texas Bear
In the article, the picture of the Flaming Bomb does not show clearly. The following site shows a better picture of the Flame above the Bomb.
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=37485
Don,

It is my opinion that the gun listed on the website you mention is a fake... the ordnance bomb is not correct.

Texas Bear

Thanks Burt, I will send you some pictures to see what I have, for the good, bad or ugly. Your assistance is always appreciated. Don

Bert H.

quote:Originally posted by Texas Bear
Thanks Burt, I will send you some pictures to see what I have, for the good, bad or ugly. Your assistance is always appreciated. Don


Don,

This is a link to an enlarged version of the gun in the article Rick Hill wrote - http://www.rarewinchesters.com/gunroom/1894/M94-0836812/94-0836812-03.JPG

Note that the letter size of the "US" is different on the real one, and that the ordnance bomb is different.

ilwil

Some background on the 'spruce' name: Sitka spruce was ideal for the airframes for the huge armada of planes we were getting ready to deploy on France by early 1919. Huge stands of it were in remote parts of the Olympic Penninsula in Washington. The army created engineer regiments to push a railroad into those areas to access the trees. Since they were not going to deploy overseas, they were deemed to have a lower level of need for firearms for guard duty, hunting, so the Winchesters were ideal for that.
The 'Spruce Railway' project came to a sudden, final halt on 11 Nov 1918. You can still see the tunnels, roadbed, ties, rails and other heavy equipment that was abandoned with the armistice, almost 92 years ago.