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WSSM

tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
edited December 2016 in Ask the Experts
Just wondering, why the WSSM has died off. Seemed like a great little family, but better suited to larger bores from .257 to .338?

Any opinions?

EDIT 1
quote:quote:Originally posted by gunnut505
A friend's son bought a Tikka T3 in 300WSM for Elk. He asked me to go to the range with him to spot shots for sighting in his scope, and I brought my Sako TRG-S in 300WM to let him see any difference in recoil.
He could only find 150gr. Factory ammo at $38 a box, & I told him to get as much as he could afford, since they would be reloadable.
I brought some handloads with 168, 170 & 220 grain bullets & my chronograph to see what velocities he was getting.
2 boxes of ammo later, he still couldn't group into a pie plate at 150 yards, and his 150s turned out to be 300fps slower than the 190 Sciroccos I loaded.
I DID mention GunBroker to him as we left.....


I have not ever seen a Tikka T3 not shoot extremely well. I would be interested in his scope, base and ring combination, and if it was mounted properly.
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    Riomouse911Riomouse911 Member Posts: 3,492 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Oversaturation...there have to be at least 15 factory .22 caliber rounds out there of various popularities, and the .24 and .25 calibers already have decent cartridges that the WSSM overlap.

    Good idea, but no real spark. (I see the .26, .28, .30 and .33 Nosler rounds in this same light, very good rounds, nothing really earthshattering to unseat the established ones)
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    mrmike08075mrmike08075 Member Posts: 10,998 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I heard bbl's and chambers burned out before 1000 rounds...

    I heard throat erosion issues and case splits - separations after 500 rounds...

    But I do not own one.

    Mike
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    charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When's the last time they introduced a new game animal that wasn't covered by existing cartridges?

    added The last new game I remember was Iron Chickens. I got a longer barrel and adjustable sights on both ends S&W made to fill that niche, caliber/cartridge remained the same.

    Sporting Clays better simulated actual bird hunting for me. I still use the same hunting guns I shot trap or skeet with to get ready for real bird season. I noticed they didn't bring out some new cartridge like a 4" 30 gauge.
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    waltermoewaltermoe Member Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had a couple Winchester rifles in the .223 and 6mm when they cam out. Beautiful rifles, but they were the pencil barreled light weight rifle. I never could get them to what I would call shoot tight groups, even trying reloads, and after firing 5 or 6 rounds the barrel got HOT! I do remember I called Hornady and asked them if they had noticed any barrel erosion or burning the barrel when they were testing loads, I believe they said around 300 rounds and the barrel was showings signs.
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    nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    tsr1965 and I have discussed this topic on a couple of different occasions so I will post a quick recap of those comments from my perspective.

    Simply stated; bad rifle design, bad loading decisions and poor execution of a good design for a cartridge. The lack of support by Winchester was astounding and has continued to result in the demise of a good cartridge.

    First and foremost, I think that the design is a viable but I know that the execution was piss poor. Excuse the language but I can't say it any plainer. Winchester, like Remington and the handful of other firearms manufacturers here in the US have been degrading the sector for the last three decades at least. They have given over to the bean counters and greed mongers instead of adhering to what the original goals were, produce fine firearms for a deserving public.

    Winchester released the cartridges then the rifles which were nowhere near ready for release due to bad engineering and awful design. It takes some real manipulation to get one of the early rifles to feed and function correctly. By releasing a product that doesn't function correctly, it sours the entire general public on the projects connected to that product. Winchester soured the public then tried to accommodate them with better design and function. All too late.

    The Coup de Grace was the total lack of support for the components in the last few years. But unfortunately this was an action supported by all of the US component manufacturers as well.

    In reality, these cartridges are a nice addition to the line up of cartridges available to the general public. The case capacity is that of the .308 Win. family (.243, .260, 7mm-08, .308) at 54 grains of water approximately. But they come in a very compact package which when handled correctly could have resulted in a terrific Short-Short action which would really feed and function with these cartridges. Then we could have seen a better addition of the lightweight, shorter magazine fed, carbine style hunting rifles for the hunting cadre. This is not to say that I support the pencil-type barrels because I don't for the stated reasons. But a slightly beefier contour could have been accommodated.

    Winchester, like most folks who load ammunition for sale to the general public, resorted to 'fast, easy and cheap' when bringing these cartridges to the market. Rather than concentrating on what could be exceptional, they chose to bring forth mediocrity but at a great price point for the company. The only reason a particular cartridge or in this case, cartridges, is considered to be a 'barrel burner' is because of the lack of motivation for the ballisticians to do their homework and try to create a cartridge which is optimum for velocity, energy and barrel life. Now, this is not always possible but it is for the most part, I guarantee, because I and many others have done it. I have a .243 WSSM used for testing which is in it's 2,000 round life range with very little erosion or fire cracking if you will. The recipe is the key and not enough people understand the concept to apply it under field circumstances. So if you whine about barrel burning, learn to reload using a different set of goals.

    quote:When's the last time they introduced a new game animal that wasn't covered by existing cartridges?

    Charlie, no offense but this is one of those questions meant to catch folks off guard with it's brilliance and simplicity of observation. It really doesn't apply.

    Reality is that nearly every game animal in the US can be hunted and killed successfully with one cartridge. This makes every other of the several hundred or so cartridges superfluous, unnecessary. The difference is that we get bored and want to try other alternatives and test our theories against nature. We want to experiment and celebrate new experiences.

    quote:I heard bbl's and chambers burned out before 1000 rounds...

    I heard throat erosion issues and case splits - separations after 500 rounds...

    But I do not own one.

    I hear,... I heard,... I read,... on the internet,... There is so much bad information being blabbered around these days that it is becoming impossible to quell most of it because of rapidity of and number of repetitions. Some idiot writes a response to a question without actually knowing anything or having any actual experience with the subject and it gets picked up and repeated, becoming part of the 'internet folklore' which needs to be expunged. You my friend have been made a patsy for just such a batch of information. Worse than that, you based your opinion of not owning such a rifle or cartridge on faulty information. But because it's an opinion, you are entitled to have it and I defend that right.

    quote:Good idea, but no real spark. (I see the .26, .28, .30 and .33 Nosler rounds in this same light, very good rounds, nothing really earthshattering to unseat the established ones)

    Rarely if ever is there an 'earth shattering' experience with a new release of anything these days. Manufacturers just can't seem to get all the details right at the very first release. It seems to take several variations on the original to get most of the bugs worked out.

    I will say though that Nosler did their homework, choosing to base their design on a good conceptual and current designs by Norma and Remington for this line of cartridges. In fact, the 26 and 28 Nosler are spectacularly successful on several fronts due to the extensive recorded accuracy of custom rifles. I can't speak to the factory Nosler rifles but I haven't seen anything better than average from them since their inception.
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    spiritsspirits Member Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I read/heard that the short magnums were difficult to control feed in bolt action rifles. I also noticed from the pressure plots that they operated at about 5,000 to 10,000 psi higher than your conventional cartridges 65,000 versus 55,000 psi. Accuracy was reportedly better with the short magnums indicative of the 22/6mm PPC cartridge's accuracy but I never bought off on them same as like the other so called new and improved cartridges like the Remington 5mm and 0.17 and their like - they never replaced the 22LR and 22 caliber center fire cartridges.
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    gunnut505gunnut505 Member Posts: 10,290 ✭
    edited November -1
    A friend's son bought a Tikka T3 in 300WSM for Elk. He asked me to go to the range with him to spot shots for sighting in his scope, and I brought my Sako TRG-S in 300WM to let him see any difference in recoil.
    He could only find 150gr. Factory ammo at $38 a box, & I told him to get as much as he could afford, since they would be reloadable.
    I brought some handloads with 168, 170 & 220 grain bullets & my chronograph to see what velocities he was getting.
    2 boxes of ammo later, he still couldn't group into a pie plate at 150 yards, and his 150s turned out to be 300fps slower than the 190 Sciroccos I loaded.
    I DID mention GunBroker to him as we left.....
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