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Case forming for 8X56R?

jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
edited February 2002 in Ask the Experts
I have read that cases for the 8X56R can be formed from 7.62 Russian; ammodepot also claims they can be made from 45-70. Anyone have any luck with either method? Is a caseforming die needed, or is a resizer sufficient?
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conference in 1899.
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Comments

  • Der GebirgsjagerDer Gebirgsjager Member Posts: 1,673 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've done the 7.62x54R Russian to 8x56mmR Hungarian quite successfully with the RCBS case forming die set and the standard 8x56 reloading set. This is not an inexpensive initial investment, but the results are great. I've also purchased and loaded/reloaded Bertram cases made as 8x56. Also an expensive proposition, but probably the least hassle. A couple of boxes last a long time. Never heard of using .45-70, and believe that given the difference in rim size (.45-70 larger) and O.A.L. (.45-70 shorter) it would be less satisfactory than the 7.62 conversion. Neat old guns, aren't they--the 95's.
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  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Quoting Donnally's Cartridge conversion manual7.62x54R russian 1 turn rim to .554 and back chamfer 2 taper expand to about .335 and cut to 2.25", chamfer 3 F/L size in 8x56 die trim to length and chamfer. Fireform in chamber. he also shows barnes data of a .205gr .328 dia bullet with 45 gr of 3031 yealding 2300fpsmy notes you may not need to turn the rim, i didn't when I made 8x50R's from the same case and why don't you try firing a 7.62x54 in it you might get a well formed case without all the extra work (I accidently formed a 8x50R out of a 30-30 round that way)no pressure worries with a bullet thats .020 under bore
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  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    Not a bad idea, theoretically... and not on your life! Even if it is a good idea, I will play it safe and only use proper dimension ammo... though I will modify your idea. How about taking some empty 7.62 brass, priming, and fireforming with a blank charge?
    "...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conference in 1899.
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  • buck007buck007 Member Posts: 75 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    jonk: Why do you want to go through all that work? When you can buy loaded rounds from the Sports mans guide for .27 cents apiece. Just a thought. Bob
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  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I saw some (chek made) winchester brand 7.62x54R fmj's at a gun store the other day turns out they are boxer primed brass !YES! and at 10 bucks a box they were cheaper than Norma brassmost of the stuff out there in 8x50R is steel cased berdan primed
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  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    Why go through all the work? Why does anyone reload? Why, with a cast bullet and cast bullet powder load, I can shoot for about 7-10 cents a round. Versus 27? As I say it pays for itself.Would that boxer primed stuff be Sellier and Bellot, in a blue box, by any chance?
    "...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conference in 1899.
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  • Der GebirgsjagerDer Gebirgsjager Member Posts: 1,673 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I didn't respond to your post about fireforming cases because I feared that jamming a 7.62x54Rmm into a '95 Mannlicher 8x56Rmm and pulling the trigger was your goal. Now that I can see you are in full possession of your faculties I can agree with you that in theory it is possible. BUT, very inadvisable as the modern 7.62mm Russian loadings approach .30-06 pressures and the old '95 is not up to this. Fireforming usually requires enough resistance in the form of a bullet to expand the brass against, and into the shape of, the chamber wall. It should never be done in a gun of lesser strength than that made for the cartridge to be fireformed. I have done this with, for example, .308 Win. in .358 Win.; but the .358 Win. was a modern gun made to contain pressures equal to or in excess of the .308. Far better, I think, to follow one of the other alternatives. Buy disposable surplus ammo (all corrosive and berdan, but relatively inexpensive), buy ready made brass in the proper caliber, or purchase the necessary tooling to do the conversion properly. The surplus ammo usually comes packed in the necessary clips. If you need some clips I have a few I'll be happy to send you for the postage.
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  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Der G is giving you some good advise JongI went down to the my ammo locker and looked, the box is white and marked Winchester Metric Calibers 7.62x54R part # MC76254R. Jay's in Clare MI was selling it for 10.89 a box last fall down in the fine print it says "made in the Chech Republic" who realy made it is anyones guess
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jon, the Mountain Hunter is spot on. You are looking at a significant expense and work before you get to your goal if you decide to form the brass. If you do proceed, please do be careful. I saw on the other post where one fellow disdained the neck anneal. It has always been my practice to anneal when reworking brass to a different caliber. The process is stressful to the brass and after all that work, even another one or two loadings more than offsets the time spent doing this simple operation versus doing the whole process again.
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