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Light primer hits

oldnbaldoldnbald Member Posts: 3,578
edited March 2013 in Ask the Experts
Hi Guys -

Just thought I would report back about the light primer hit problem I had with my Llama .45. Took it to a local gunsmith yesterday and he immediately diagnosed the problem as being caused by the safety system where the grip safety is supposed to release the keeper on the firing pin(Is this the Series 80 system that everyone complains about?). He said "I have taken this off all my 1911s, but I can't remove a safety from a customer's pistol without your ok". I said "I want the gun to shoot - do whatever you have to to make it do so", so, he removed the system while I was there. I haven't been able to get to the range yet (weather), but I just spent 15 minutes shooting a pencil at my ceiling and it "fired" every time. So, hopefully, the problem is solved. Many thanks for the advice about my problem.

Comments

  • oldnbaldoldnbald Member Posts: 3,578
    edited November -1
    OK, guys, I'm going to apologize right off the bat. This is going to be a fairly long post, but I felt I had to explain everything that has occurred to give you a complete picture.

    I have a Llama MiniMax .45 and have been shooting it for about 10 years.(I'll accept disparaging remarks about Llamas, but this has been a good one and is actually my favorite pistol) It is a two tone, blue slide, chrome or stainless plated frame. Several months ago my son and I were at the range and after firing several rounds, the slide locked partially back, not returning into battery. I knew the range officer well, so he and I sat down and he finally got the slide free and removed it. It APPEARED that a flake of the chrome/stainless plating material had spalled off and lodged on the slide rails. locking same. We cleaned it up. oiled it good, and I went on my way. Shortly after that I was due to re-qualify for my CHL, and I decided to use that gun. As I am a VERY cautious person, I did take along a second .45, just in case. The gun functioned flawlessly until the very last required round was fired, and the slide locked partially back, again not fully returning to battery. I assumed that the problem was the continued spalling of the plating off the frame, so I decided to ship the gun off for refinishing. I had used this guy to refinish and old, BEAT UP Colt Commander I picked up very cheap. He did what I thought was a good job, so I decided to use him again. I sent him an email describing all I have just said and asked if I should send the gun as is or should I get the slide released before shipping? He said to just ship it as it, so I did.

    This is the email I got from the re-finisher after his inspection of the gun:

    Hi Bob...I took it out to the shop yesterday and started an investigation into the jamming issue. I took it apart from the bottom without messing with the slide to make sure that it wasn't something internal that was catching on the underside of the slide. Nope. All internal parts are out and it's still jammed up. The slide seemed really tightly jammed on the frame. I looked at the exposed parts of the rails with a magnifier and could see some flaking of the finish but unless it was a huge chunk, it couldn't jam it up that tight. I thought maybe the slide interlock was catching inside someplace but it's not. I could see it from the back after the hammer was removed and it was free.Then I got ready to remove the slide from the frame and found the problem. Actually, there was only one problem but it may have several causes. The top edge of the rear part of the slide lock was jammed under the edge of the slide. I gently tapped on it to push it back into place and the slide released just fine.

    The right side of the slide lock pin protrudes quite a bit from the frame. It's possible that you're hitting it with your fingers and applying some slight pressure on it. Under certain conditions, it's just enough to push the lock to the left and causing the lock to pop under the edge of the slide and jam it. To fix this, I would shave off most of the protrusion and round it off so it looks factory. I'd leave enough sticking out so disassembly is still just a finger push on it but would remove a lot of so it doesn't accidently get pushed in. I would put a very slight bevel on the rear edge of the take down notch . The idea here is so that as the slide closes, it will tend to push the slide lock inwards instead of helping it to pop out and under the edge of the slide.

    I think the slide lock may be bent very slightly outwards . I would put a very slight bend inwards at this point. I see this quite a bit on older semi auto's, especially old Colt Mustangs for some reason. I would put a very slight bevel on the inner edge of the slide . This will help to keep the slide lock from catching and jumping around.

    The biggest problem is where the flat surface of the underside of the slide lock fits into a notch in the frame. The frame notch allows the end of the slide to pivot up and down. Down allows the slide to move freely back and forth. Up causes the squared off part to catch in the notch in the slide to lock it open. (As in empty mag) The mag follower is what pushes on the underside of the slide lock to push it up. Bullet in mag, no follower contact with the slide lock. No bullet in mag, the follower pushes up on the slide lock and locks it open.


    The big problem is that the slide lock goes to far down in the frame notch. It will almost push out under the slide and does under certain conditions. That's causing the jamming in the partially open position. I was able to duplicate the jam on the bench. It's probably caused by a combination of the afore mentioned issues, wear and/or manufacturing tolerances.

    Here's what I suggest to fix that. It's a Golden Rule to always weld, cut, file, drill, beat on, etc the cheapest part. I would leave the frame alone, aside from refinishing. I would silver solder a thin tab on the underside of the slide release . That would be invisible. It would have the effect of not allowing the slide lock to drop so far down in the frame notch. That would keep the top edge of the slide lock trapped on the inside of the slide unless you put it in the take-down position. The empty mag lock open mode would be perfectly functional since the UP position is unaffected. Combined with the other fixes that I mentioned above, it would fix the problem and be permanent. Thoughts? Thanks, Mac.

    After receiving the above email......
    I gave the ok to make the repairs, the gun was refinished and shipped to me. Since I am not very mobile, I did not get to the range right away. When I did get to the range, all I got was very light primer strikes on every round. After mulling over the problem for a while, I remembered that the re-finisher states on his web site that the refinish includes ALL internal parts except springs. So I reasoned that there might be so debris in the firing pin channel. I removed the slide and firing pin and, sure enough observed a small bit of debris in the channel. I blew out the channel with canned air, reassembled the gun, loaded one round in the magazine, went out to the back yard, aimed at the ground and pulled the trigger. The gun fired and ejected the empty casing. I thought I had solved the problem. Last week I finally got back to the range to fully test fire the gun. I had two misfires in the first magazine(light primer strikes). Recocked the hammer(manually, not byu cycling the slide), and the rounds fired. Second magazine, had three misfires, same procedures, same results. Third magazine, had three consecutive misfires, re-cocking the hammer would NOT fire the round. At that point, I packed up and came home. I've been trying to figure out what the problem could be, but have not had any "glorious revelations". I do not believe that anything described above would cause the type of problem I'm having.
    Any helpful comments from the crew would be greatly appreciated.

    Oh! One point. I was firing Wolf ammo, which is what the gun has fired almost exclusively for the entire time I've had it. I'll take any licks about Wolf, but I don't think you will change my mind about it. I shoot it in almost every gun I have and have had no problems I could trace to ammo.
  • oldnbaldoldnbald Member Posts: 3,578
    edited November -1
    Last week my buddy and I went to the range. I had purchased a CETME and he had enjoyed shooting it so he went out and got one, also. It shot fine the first time, but this weekend it would not fire and there were only slight indentations on the primers.[xx(]

    It is mil. surplus .308, and those primers can be hard, but he swears it is the same ammo he used the first time. Every primer had an almost identical faint dimple.

    My suggestions to him are: Blast some gun scrubber down the firing pin hole with the little red straw attachment to blow out any crud or grease and/or replace the firing pin, or try commercial ammo to see if it does the same thing.

    Anybody else have any suggestions?

    Best regards,Rich
  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've had problems with Wolf large pistol primers in the past. Random FTF's in a pistol with a striker mechanism.

    Best luck is with Federal primers. Either reloads or Federal ammo.

    To pin point your problem use either reloads with Federal primers or Federal factory ammo.

    If they function satisfactorily you will know it is something your guy did when he refinished/gunsmithed the pistol.

    Had similar problems with a Keltec P 11 years ago. Corrected it by cutting off a couple of loops on the firing pin spring.

    You been shooting the Llama quite a bit over the last 10 years, might consider replacing firing pin, firing pin and hammer springs. I know your happy with it, but after 10 years of use might make a difference?
  • asphalt cowboyasphalt cowboy Member Posts: 8,904 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Check your main spring housing and internals for debrit, crud and corrosion.
  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 10,042 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Check your main spring housing and internals for debrit, crud and corrosion."....+1.......also it may be time for a new main spring (hammer spring).
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,105 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When doing any trouble shooting . Change the cheapest and fastest easiest to do first. #1 change brand of ammo #2 clean the chamber area of the barrel First #3 clean all internal Parts of the hammer sear mainspring and firing pin return spring also with firing pin removed make sure the breach face of the slide has not battered up the firing pin hole and binding on the firing pin...Then oil all Parts .Don't throw a bunch of parts at it hoping to fix problem. OIL IS YOUR FRIEND
  • machine gun moranmachine gun moran Member Posts: 5,198
    edited November -1
    You can check the firing system's moxie by cocking the gun and inserting a dowel down the barrel and positioning the end over the firing pin/striker hole. I've also used aluminum and brass rods on occasion. Any of them are good for two hits (one on each end), and then the ends must be dressed. Different guns will vary in ignition power (I once stuck a dowel in the ceiling}. Brass rods will only jump, but what you are looking for is mostly in the firing pin impression.
  • oldnbaldoldnbald Member Posts: 3,578
    edited November -1
    Thanks to all for your comments. I will do some further checking.

    rufe-snow - fyi. I know the count can slip up on you, but I feel I really haven't shot all that many rounds over the years. I am not a two or three range trips a week guy; more like one trip every two or three months. Never shot more than 100 rounds per trip. But I WILL consider your comments and look into your suggestions. Many thanks.

    machine gun moran - I knew about the dowel thing, l had simply forgotten about it. Thanks for mentioning it. I will try it and see what happens.


    Again, thanks to everyone.
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