Winchester Short Magnums

robsguns

I've been looking at Winchesters web site, specifically the ballistics comparisons on the WSM. I've noticed something I want your opinion on. The guns I list here are the ones they list for comparison. The 270 WSM has a vel. of 3275 fps, 270 win mag. 3050, 270 wby. 3200, all of these with a 130 gr. bullet. Fastest vs. slowest is a diff. of 225 fps.The 7mm wsm 3225 fps, 7mm rem mag 3100, these with a 140 gr. bullet. Fastest vs. slowest is a diff. 125 fps.The 300 wsm 2970 fps, 300 win mag 2960, 300 H&H 2880. These with a 180 gr. bullet.Fastest vs. slowest a diff. 90 fps.Now to the meat of my post. Winchester isnt even comparing their wsm to the fastest in each category/bullet diameter. They are omitting the STW's, Ultra Mags, and Wby's., except for the 270 Wby. The diff. in velocity between the wsm and these faster rounds, would obviously make the wsm look anemic. That being said, it also seems to me that even using the slower cartridges for comparison, their wsm doesnt fair to well with larger bullets, when put up against other bullets of the same size and comparing velocities. So, do those of you who make predictions, or those of you with high speed ballistics programs, believe that Winchester will be introducing the WSM in anything larger than a .30 caliber bullet, due to the inadequacies of the case to propel larger bullets fast enough to be of use or real benefit over other cartridges? I know this is stretching the 'Ask the Experts' forum, but please dont poof this, I need the opinions of these knowledgeable folks, based on their expertese in cartridge development.

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SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

paul1231

ROBS: Don't confuse Marketing with Logic. Manufactures produce to sell, not because it's needed.

He Dog

Yup, the short mags are just the latest fad, and likely, I think, to be short lived.

v35

I wouldnt be surprised to find these short, fat cartridges showing an accuracy edge over long skinny ones as comparisons between the .308 vs 30-06 and 6mmPPC vs other 6mms have shown.

robsguns

They've already been making claims of increased accuracy potential, but you can get accuracy out of neaarly any caliber, hunting accuracy that is, and the theme I hear is lighter, talking about shorter actions, meaning a lighter (hunting) gun. I just dont see that the better accuracy potential in a hunting gun is relevant, varmint gun is different, hunting gun is not. So velocity and short action, coupled with a lighter weapon is what I think they should be after, if they're trying to make a better mouse trap, but I dont see the wsm's providing the velocity that other guns in the same bullet diameter and weight can provide. My main question, though, is: I see a trend towards any advantage of the shorter case and action being retarded in the velocity category with an increase in bullet diameter and weight, do you see that trend occuring also? Would that prevent the folks at Winchester from likely introducing anything larger than what they already have, the 300?

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SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

He Dog

Since we are second guessing the manufacturers here, I will hazard the opinion that the introduction of larger calibers will depend upon two things: 1. If they can get velocity near that of longer cartridges, which I suspect they can for .338, and 2. The size of the market for those calibers. There are buyers for .338 and above, but most hunters shoot rifles in the .243 to .30-06 range in the lower 48. I suspect what will really stop development and marketing of larger calibers will be anemic sales of the short magnums already introduced. Accuracy may be better, but as you point out it is easy enough to get moa out of the longer cartridges that exist, and what hunter really needs better? I implied before but did not state explicity that I think they will be short lived because of poor sales and that will limit what is developed. I have been wrong before once or twice though.

Curly

I am thinking about getting a 7mm WSM. The main advantage of the cartridge is the fact that you can get them in the lightweight rifle. I think the slightly better ballistics is just a small benefit and is not really the main reason people will buy a rifle with a WSM cartridge.To doubt they will make a WSM cartridge larger than the 300WSM. Shooting a 300WSM in a lightweight rifle is probably already pushing it a little...(too much recoil) But I think a lot of guys will like the 7mmWSM in a lightweight rifle. [This message has been edited by Curly (edited 12-29-2001).]

robsguns

Curly, I havent done the research, cause I'm not planning on getting one, can you tell me how much lighter one of these rifles is suppose to be than a standard rifle, from Winchester, in a comparable bullet diameter?

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SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

gunnut

I plan on all three, why not? short and fat is where its at, and if you into handloading who care's who makes factory ammo? Lets face it our safe's are full of stuff that we really dont need. If your into huntin all you need is a 22, 12ga, and a rifle. The rest is just wants.Stir, Stir, Stir

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~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

gunnut

I plan on all three, why not? short and fat is where its at, and if you are into handloading who care's who makes factory ammo? Lets face it our safe's are full of stuff that we really dont need. If your into huntin all you need is a 22, 12ga, and a rifle. The rest is just wants.Stir, Stir, Stir

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~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

gunnut

Just another thought, has anyone done a comparision of the Shorts to say a .50BMG ? Makes as much since as comparing them to a Ultra Mag now doesn't it. Stir Stir Stir

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~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

Curly

Ryan, The Win. Mod70 Stainless/Synthetic with 7mm WSM and 24" barrel weighs 7.25lbThe Win. Mod70 Stainless/Synthetic with 7mm Rem. Mag and 26" barrel weighs 7.5lbThe shorter action combined with the 2" lesser length barrel is only a 4 ounce difference, but every ounce will help sometimes.The Browning Stainless Stalker in 300 Win Mag and 26" barrel is only 7lb3oz The Browning Stainless Stalker in 300WSM and 23" barrel is 6lb 9oz.(I wonder why the Browning rifles have a 10oz. difference compared to the Winchester's 4 ounce difference)Remington is also making a short magnum: they call it the Short Action Ultra Mag (SA UM)[This message has been edited by Curly (edited 12-29-2001).]