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Black Talon

cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,624 ✭✭✭✭
edited February 2002 in Ask the Experts
Why do they not make the black talon anymore? Is it Illigal in some states ? Why ?
Thanks
It's too late for me, save yourself.
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Comments

  • cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,624 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Can you guys tell me what is so special about this ammo (other than the price)?! A lot of the ads say "repackaged by Winchester for Law Enforcement Only". Is it legal for me to buy this? Is it really just repackaged or an actual change in the round?Thanks,
    cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
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  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Black Talons upon impact flatten into sharp finger-like pieces and are razor sharp. They have been known to cut through three pairs of surgeons gloves, thus exposing the doctors to AIDS. This is the reason they stopped making them altogether. The makers of Black Talons (Winchester) voluntarily took them off the market and repackaged them for "Law Enforcement Only" but wasn't good enough for the cry baby Liberals. So they stopped making them. I've been carring them in my Niner for 11 years. As far as I know they are not illegal in any state. I guess nobody thought they would still be around today.
    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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  • Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    cbx-- A defense attorney would advise you not to carry ammo such as Black Tylon for personal protection. Or any other ammo that does unusually high degrees of tissue damage. It's best to carry "regular" ammo that can be bought over the counter at "regular" stores. That way, you will come across as a "regular" guy simply trying to defend himself--not some gun-nut looking for someone to demolish with "accessively destructive" ammo.If you ever have to use a gun in self defense, then you will be the one having to defend himself...in the eyes of the law.
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  • Master7thSonMaster7thSon Member Posts: 229 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thats REAL sad
    although I do fully believe what you say is true
    I hope that recent events will help in some way to turn things aroung and start cleaning up some of this disgusting mess that has been created with the self destructing liberal mindset of 'no enemies on the left'. wish EVERYONE could learn things like how The Peoples Republic of China (who always has and always will have but one goal
    global communism)
    contributes money annually to HCI and other liberal gun grabbing orginazations
    why cant everyone see if the PRoC wants gun control
    it CANT be good for America!
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, all I can say is that I will continue to carry Black Talons - which are still readily available, if at inflated prices, at shows and shops. If the need arises for me to use them to defend myself, as the saying goes, I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. And where I live, most of the jury will feel much the same way.
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  • cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,624 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Iconoclast, Since you actually have this ammo, is the repackaging thing by Winchester B.S. or not. I sure don't want to pay top dollar for bogus rounds.Thanks,
    cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
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  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's the real thing, about $35.00/20 rounds.Not good for Plinking unless your real name is Bill Gates.The original box is more of a collectors item. There are three variations 1. the original 2. the ranger 3. SXT
    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself![This message has been edited by RugerNiner (edited 02-09-2002).]
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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  • duckhunterduckhunter Member Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    this ammo is listed on this auction site. "the real deal"
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  • Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    jbx-- There are many ammos out there that have the equivalent "stopping power" as the Winchester Black Tylon. They are made by Remington, Federal, Winchester, Speer, and several other major ammunition manufacturers. You owe it to yourself (and pocketbook) to explore the alternatives. I suggest you start a new thread telling what caliber pistol you have and ask the experts what they would recommend as ammo to use for self defense. Be sure you say you want ammo that will have good stopping power, and ammo that will be acceptable in case your use of the ammo ended up in front of a jury.I can't emphasize enough how important your ammo selection is for self defense.P.S. This legal advice doesn't cost you a dime. (However, I will accept a "thank you.") The "representation" you get after you use your handgun will cost you $50-$100/hour.
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  • cleve00cleve00 Member Posts: 24 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you shoot the same caliber as your local law enforcement find out what kind of ammo they use, so ,God forbid, If you ever use your gun in self defense you can testify, "I only use the same ammo as the local police uses", and do you think the police use standard ammo? I think you will find that the locals use high to premium stuff.
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  • gunnutgunnut Member Posts: 724 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Local dealer has probably a case of different Black Talon ammo, I picked up 4 boxes of 308 for 16 a box. I was unaware that the prices have gone up so much. Well and I guess he was too!!
    ~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I stopped loading Black Talons when the price for my boxes reached 3x what I paid. At lest one other brand is identical. Starfire if memory serves.Sad state of affairs when a product is pulled off the market because it does exactly what it was designed to do. If, as the man said, "god forbid," I ever have to shoot someone in the house in self defense, I do not want them to get up and try again. I now load Federal hydroshocks in my .357.
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  • cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,624 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rafter-S,Thanks for the sobering advice. Thanks to everyone for their input. It does seem a shame that an effective product is pulled. On the other hand $100./hr is a little scarey too. A point: here in Indy about a week ago, 3 punks robbed a couple walking into a bar. A good description of the get- away car was given to the police. They were found in 20 minutes. Surrounded by police the 2 in the front seat get out of the car. The police see the 3rd trying to hide in the back seat. They yell for him to get out and he is seen with a pistol. He is shot dead. Turns out that it was an air pistol (this kid would have probably brought a knife to a gun fight). My point is that now the family is on TV saying "it was only a air gun". You can bet your *ss that some lawyer is telling them that this should be good for $50K. Have any of you guys seen how realistic current air guns are? Yes, I will start a favorite 9mm topic. Thanks again guys.
    cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
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  • KhegglieKhegglie Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    up in Massachussetts some of the local LE were confiscating the ammo if you were found carrying Black Talon "because it was LE only". It looks nasty when they open up right, but I doubt if they are much better than any Silvertip, and as mentioned just give the DA more to go with at your inquest.
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There seems to be a logic falacy here. If LEand civilians have to operate under the same guidelines in the use of deadly force, how can civilians be legally handicapped by having to use less effective ammunition in self defence ?Are some people more equal than others and why is it allowed to stand?
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  • KhegglieKhegglie Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Simply this V35...civilians are not trusted by "them" so we get bayonet bans, mag/ammo limits ect. To the point of LE only ammo in the Great Nor East...its best just to say (probably true) that you got it at some gun show somewhere. It was never declared illegal in the area i know they were confiscating it, but they take it just the same.
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  • Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In most states, the law allows for you to defend yourself from threat to the extent that the threat is eliminated. Blowing someone into the next county could easily be construed as "going beyond" the elimination of threat. The key words are, "I shot him because I thought he had a gun/knife/club and was going to kill me (or a member of my family). All I was doing was trying to stop him from doing so." The key points are: you thought he had a deadly weapon, you thought your life was in immediate danger, and you were only trying to stop him.You only have the right to stop someone from causing you physical harm--you don't have the right to kill them. Now, they may die in the process of you stopping them, but your "intentions" are what are important--you were only trying to stop their aggression.By use of ammo that goes beyond "stopping the aggression," you could be preceived and portrayed as the gun-nut out to kill someone.Do you see the difference? It is criticl that you understand how after-the-fact perception is so important when applying deadly force in self-defense situations.
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  • reb8600reb8600 Member Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The way it reads in Utah is that if your life or the life of another is in danger you have the right to protect those lifes with the use of deadly force.
    Guncontrol-The ability to hit what your aiming at.
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What's good for the goose has to be good for the gander. "Equality under the laws"My question is; why hasn't this been forced by the NRA and tested in the courts ?
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  • redcedarsredcedars Member Posts: 919 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Look guys, if you're dead you won't need a lawyer. But your family will have to try to get along without whatever you brought home.Carry the most effective combination for your circumstances. Better to hit an attacker once with a .22 than miss him 3x with .357 Black Talons. But if you can afford it, and you can shoot it effectively, do it.Keep your priorities straight. If you act in self-defense, a good attorney can always defend using the best tools available. But you have to live through it first.redcedars
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  • cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,624 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rafter-S,I don't want to start something here. I'm here for information. As my previous post has said, I agree with the liability issue. I can't afford $100./ hr to defend myself in court. When I was in the army, I was told that the most dangerous animal(humans too) was a wounded one. The last thing I want to see is a half cazed punk comming after me. The thought of only wounding someone to give me time to call the LEO just doesn't seem realistic. I may be not that good of a shot. Let me say that I never want to shoot someone. I live in the country 20 miles from Indy, and I wouldn't even shoot a rabbit. I took your advise and posted a new topic. Federal has been pretty popular there. I guess in summing it up, I would have to be pushed so hard by a situation that I wouldn't care about the ammo. Yes, this could cost me the ranch. We have no LEO's close. Although we have little trouble here (which is why I got out of Indy) I know that if anything happens it's up to me.
    cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
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  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rafter-S,Your words: "...you could be perceived and portrayed as the gun-nut OUT to kill someone". [My emphasis on the "out".]Odds are, if I have to kill someone they'll be coming "in" to my home. When I've been "out" and have been close to violence my instinctive reaction has been "to get away"--the only place I'd be really aggressive in my defense, would be at my home (I think, but that has never been tested), or if I were in a situation where children were at risk.My whole life as a "peaceful person" would be a pretty good defense if some scum-bag of an attorney attacked me citing the "deadly" ammo I used in a self-defense situation.
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