308 vs. NATO

lead

This has probably been dealt with many times before, but I'd appreciate your opinions. A guy at a gun shop was looking at a Savage 110, or 111, in 308. He talked about getting it because he could shoot the cheap NATO ammo for plinking, commercial ammo for hunting. We started to argue about pressures and headspacing, etc. As often happens, there were as many opinions as people in the shop. What is the story on using military ammo in a gun like the Savage, or Remington, or Winchester, or any other? Thanks.

Nighthawk

I have read that it was ok to shoot .308 Nato in a sporting rifle. But do not shoot factory ammo in a Military weapon,the reason being Nato ammo is loaded to a lower pressure than factory brand ammo. So it would be safe to shoot Nato ammo in a current Manufacture Rifle. But not safe to shoot current factory ammo in an old military rifle. I hope this helps.

Good Luck.

Rugster

leeblackman

I have a book, Cartridges of the World, it says that there isn't any difference between the 7.62x51mm Nato and the .308win. All that happened was the 7.62x51mm Nato Cartridge came out in the early 50's, and then in 1952 Winchester took and called it the .308win for commercial use, and chambered rifles for it, but it was nothing more than the 7.62x51mm. There isn't any difference in the case or anything.

The military cartridge thats different from the civilian cartridge is the 5.56x45mm Nato and the .223rem, but the external demensions are the same, the only difference is in the case wall thickness.



I just wish I had a dollar for every gun I wanted, then I'd be a rich man.

RugerNiner

I believe this is why they are called Nato rounds, because they are made the same World wide.It shouldn't make a difference whether it is used in Military or Civilian arms. If they were different, it would defeat their purpose.

Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

magnumcreekranch

I shoot the nato rounds by the hundreds and the factory 308 for hunting. Never had any problems interchanging ammo.

NRA Life MemberHill Country ShooterBobbyLIVE TO SHOOT & SHOOT TO LIVE.

110

I have heard that the NATO has a thicker case than the 308WIN. ZThe shoulder is also slightly longer on the NATO than the WIN. I was shooting 308WIN through my FR-8 until I found this out. The .308WIN factory is loaded to its highest capacity and could put too much pressure on the action. All I do now is buy boxer primed NATO ammo and reload it. Problem solved! The only thing is you can't put as much powder in a NATO case than a WIN but it's still good enough to take out a whitetail!

Herschel

The military brass, at least US military brass, is thicker. This give you smaller case capacity. When loading military brass a person must
reduce the powder charge used in civilian brass or excessive pressure will result.

rttc

Most firearms dont know the difference when it comes to the dimensions of the cases. Where the concern comes in is at the pressures developed at firing time. Its kinda ironic that in some of the military type guns I have, more meat (steel) is in the area where it counts than in some of the hunting rifles of socalled simalar caliber. Oh well guess them engineers know better ..

leeblackman

quote:
I have heard that the NATO has a thicker case than the 308WIN. ZThe shoulder is also slightly longer on the NATO than the WIN. I was shooting 308WIN through my FR-8 until I found this out. The .308WIN factory is loaded to its highest capacity and could put too much pressure on the action. All I do now is buy boxer primed NATO ammo and reload it. Problem solved! The only thing is you can't put as much powder in a NATO case than a WIN but it's still good enough to take out a whitetail!


Then Spanish FR-8 wasn't really designed to shoot even up to Nato pressures. They had their own .308win for it that was even lower pressure. I haven't seen any surplus, but I'm willing to be that your current handload would function exactly the same in commercial brass also.

I've looked thru all my books, and every one of them confirms that there is no difference between the .308win and the 7.62x51mm Nato. Sure, you probably will find higher pressure civilian loads, cause all the Nato stuff will be exactly the same, as designated by model number.

I just wish I had a dollar for every gun I wanted, then I'd be a rich man.

fergusonmorse392

LIKE PEAS IN A POD>>>5.56 NATO TO 223, 308 TO 7.62 NATO. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE GOV. SPECIFIES A POWDER WITH A SPECIFIC BURNING RATE FOR PROPER OPERATION IN GAS OPERATED RIFLES, EXAMPLE 30/06 IN THE GRAND RIFLE, POWDER OF A MED. BURNING RATE IS CALL FOR IMR 3031 TO IMR 4064, NOT A SLOW BURNING LIKE IMR 4350 OR H4831. DAMAGE TO THE OPERATING ROD DO TO INCORRECT PRESSURES WILL RENDER THE RIFLE USELESS. IN A BOLT ACTION NO PROBLEM.

leeblackman

You got it fergusonmorse392.

I just wish I had a dollar for every gun I wanted, then I'd be a rich man.