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Shotgun expert input sought

bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,221 ✭✭✭✭
edited December 2009 in Ask the Experts
I have had a Browning Citori with 30" tubes and Invector plus tubes for about 10 years. Recently I shot some slugs, with an IC choke tube in, as a prank at a turkey shoot, never dreaming it would be accurate or even on the paper at 50 yards. All I did was throw the gun to my shoulder putting the bead on the 6 O'clock of the bull and squeezed the trigger. The slug took the center of the X right out, winning hands down. My next shot, still kind of a prank, made a figure eight out of the first shot!

I've been thinking about those slug shots for a few weeks. With no rear sight, just the front bead, the gun must fit me well to shoot X's at 50 yards with slugs. I do very well on clays with it too, winning every time I go there to shoot. Informal trap shooting is a breeze with this shotgun.

My question is this; am I on to something with gun fit and shooting slugs to see if the stock fits you? Could shooting slugs be used as a way to set castoff for a scatter gun stock? Would that explain why this gun shoots so well for me?

Comments

  • Laredo LeftyLaredo Lefty Member Posts: 13,452 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You obviously have a good combination of gun and ammo but I think your success with it is more a function of your abilities than the gear.

    The gun appearently fits you well and is right on with slugs but another person not familiar with the gun and of lesser skills would not have got the results you did.
  • makindumakindu Member Posts: 382 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would agree that gun fit is extremely critical in a shotgun. You want a gun that naturally 'shoots where you look'. Ideally, you want your dominant eye directly behind the dead center of the rib, with the bead perfectly centered, as well, as soon as you shoulder the gun. Sounds like you've got that right out of the box. Me, well, I have to alter all my butt stocks so that my fat face (right check) can slide far enough into the rear stock to allow for my right eye to get dead center behind the vent rib sighting plane. I have to alter all my 12 and 20 gauge wingmaster rear stocks in the same manner. As far as the two slugs making a figure 8, with the first slug taking out the center 'X', well... me thinks you got extremely lucky. I wish I was your neighbor, 'cause I'd go to the range with you and wager a significant sum that you couldn't do it again shooting pairs of slugs. I'd give you 5 tries (10 slugs total) and then I'd buy you a beer and lunch with my winnings. mak
  • colt423colt423 Member Posts: 36 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not knowing what your choke is or slugs you are useing,I would caution you to be careful. I have seen slugs pull chokes out of barrels that were to restricted.If you are shooting rifled slugs use as close to a cyl bore as you have and dont shoot any sabot slugs out of a choked barrel. Just wanted you to have the info.
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,221 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by colt423
    Not knowing what your choke is or slugs you are useing,I would caution you to be careful. I have seen slugs pull chokes out of barrels that were to restricted.If you are shooting rifled slugs use as close to a cyl bore as you have and dont shoot any sabot slugs out of a choked barrel. Just wanted you to have the info.

    THANKS!!!!
    I was using the Improved Cylinder Choke tube. They were Winchester slugs, 1 OZ, the same ones you get at Walmart.
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,221 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by makindu
    I would agree that gun fit is extremely critical in a shotgun. You want a gun that naturally 'shoots where you look'. Ideally, you want your dominant eye directly behind the dead center of the rib, with the bead perfectly centered, as well, as soon as you shoulder the gun. Sounds like you've got that right out of the box. Me, well, I have to alter all my butt stocks so that my fat face (right check) can slide far enough into the rear stock to allow for my right eye to get dead center behind the vent rib sighting plane. I have to alter all my 12 and 20 gauge wingmaster rear stocks in the same manner. As far as the two slugs making a figure 8, with the first slug taking out the center 'X', well... me thinks you got extremely lucky. I wish I was your neighbor, 'cause I'd go to the range with you and wager a significant sum that you couldn't do it again shooting pairs of slugs. I'd give you 5 tries (10 slugs total) and then I'd buy you a beer and lunch with my winnings. mak


    Does that mean, with no rear sight to align, the stock must be perfect for my chubby, no-neck face? I would think a misalignment at the rear of the gun would place the slug, and a shot load, to the right or left of the point of aim if the stock did not have proper castoff.......

    When shooting flying clays I make a figure 8, leaning left or right depending on the path of the bird, out of the bead and target, it breaks when I do that. On dropping targets I shoot 4 feet under them and they break. I'll try some slugs later this week to see if I can duplicate the results. Lucky for me I have a three hundred yard range right out my back patio doors. [:D]
  • mrbrucemrbruce Member Posts: 3,374
    edited November -1
    Makindo--
    If you ever get to Southern Ohio and shoot against my fat cheeked friend I want to be there to help him spend your money....[:D]
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think the target shotguns, especially the high dollar, backbored ones, have more consistant bores, and with the proper IC or skeet choke tube would shoot a rifled slug like a banshee. I think the figure 8 was a product of not getting your elevation lined up exactly like you did the shot before. You might try a set of sights that clamp on the rib to see if that can be improoved. I have a Winchester Select Energy Trap gun, that I just might try that with now.

    Best
  • makindumakindu Member Posts: 382 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bpost, I think that the centerline of the bore and the bead line up perfectly down your natural line of sight when you shoulder your Citori. It sounds like you got the perfect shotgun fit right out of the box. I'm not surprised that your two slugs touched each other. I would be surprised if you were able to duplicate it at the same distance, shooting offhand again, if I understood you correctly. After all, you are shooting a smooth bore shotgun, not a precision match grade rifled barrel. I would not be near as surprised if you were able to 'touch holes' with 2 successive shots if you were shooting off a benchrest and sandbags.
    Mrbruce, did you witness his feat? Like, were you right there at the range when bpost did it? I get the impression that you think that bpost would WIN the bet. I'm such a pessimist when it comes to shotgun slugs and accuracy.
    And hey, I'm just up north here in West Central Wisconsin. I can arrange to come down to Southern Ohio, but the bet would have to be for at least Two Grand (to help offset my traveling costs). Bpost, you get two shots using the slugs of your choice and your front bead sight at 50 yards, and they have to touch each other somewhere. You have to shoot offhand, no benchrest or sandbags. I'd definitely take this bet. Heck, after you miss with the first attempt, flash the cash, and I'll go double or nothing with ya on your second attempt. I'm serious.
    Keep me posted. mak
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,221 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by makindu
    Bpost, I think that the centerline of the bore and the bead line up perfectly down your natural line of sight when you shoulder your Citori. It sounds like you got the perfect shotgun fit right out of the box. I'm not surprised that your two slugs touched each other. I would be surprised if you were able to duplicate it at the same distance, shooting offhand again, if I understood you correctly. After all, you are shooting a smooth bore shotgun, not a precision match grade rifled barrel. I would not be near as surprised if you were able to 'touch holes' with 2 successive shots if you were shooting off a benchrest and sandbags.
    Mrbruce, did you witness his feat? Like, were you right there at the range when bpost did it? I get the impression that you think that bpost would WIN the bet. I'm such a pessimist when it comes to shotgun slugs and accuracy.
    And hey, I'm just up north here in West Central Wisconsin. I can arrange to come down to Southern Ohio, but the bet would have to be for at least Two Grand (to help offset my traveling costs). Bpost, you get two shots using the slugs of your choice and your front bead sight at 50 yards, and they have to touch each other somewhere. You have to shoot offhand, no benchrest or sandbags. I'd definitely take this bet. Heck, after you miss with the first attempt, flash the cash, and I'll go double or nothing with ya on your second attempt. I'm serious.
    Keep me posted. mak



    Thanks, but I don't bet. The idea behind the post was to see if an experienced shooter could confirm what I found by accident. If a shooter is missing a lot of clays maybe a couple of shots with slugs will help determine if the stock is right for him or her. If the eye is not aligned properly it would make the slugs hit to the right or left pretty consistently. From that point they could adjust the stock to help them get back on target.

    Mrbruce is a friend of mine and a heck of a skilled gunsmith. He has helped me learn more in the past couple of years than I can put into words. He has a lot of faith in my shooting skills, a lot more than I deserve for sure. He makes shooting itty-bitty groups easy with the toys he has built for me. He also knows that shooting offhand is my speciality.
  • makindumakindu Member Posts: 382 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This thread will be locked soon, by I wanted to weigh in one last time, bpost. Thanks for not taking me up on my bet. Truth be told, I never win my bets. I've been jinxed since birth. Check with my bookie.
    In theory, I would agree that a slug or two fired from a shotgun barrel might help inform the shooter where his pattern was being tossed, but it would make more sense to me to just pattern a new/used shotgun (and birdshot/trap/skeet load) on large sheets of new virgin newsprint at the various yardages that I would be shooting, such as 25 yds, 30 yds, 35 yds, 40 yds to see what kind of shot pattern was being thrown by the gun. I then make 'stock adjustments' based on where center of pattern is. I always pattern my shotguns with different loads at different ranges in this manner. But when I switch to slugs at 40 yds, they generally shoot about 12 inches lower than the center of my birdshot pattern. This is true of my Ithaca 37 20ga, and 870 20ga LW Magnum Wingmaster. Both my 12ga BPS and 20ga BPS throw a slug higher than my point of aim, but I believe that to be due to the way they slant the vent rib sighting plane 'downward'. On the BPS receiver, the rib is quite high, and the sighting plane is below the center of the shotgun bore. If you don't understand what I am trying to describe, compare a BPS 20ga 22 inch vent rib slope to an 870 20ga 21 inch vent rib slope, and note how there is always that high extra vent rib permanently attached to the BPS receivers. I'd post some pics, but I just don't have the time tonight. If you are interested, drop me a direct email and I'll fire some pics off to better show what I am trying to describe. Obviously, in the end, it is related to how each individual holds/shoulders his firearm and how much front bead/top of vent rib, etc is visible to the shooter. All the best, and thanks for saving me some green. mak
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