Winchester Mdl 12 20 guage shells

Mr. Lobo

I took out my dads old Mdl 12 out this weekend and shot a 2 3/4 inch shell through it. Once it fired it was very difficult to remove the cartridge. Should I be using a shorter shell?

rick_reno

Early 20 ga. Model 12's were chambered for two and one-half inch shells. After 1925 all 20 ga. guns were chambered in two and three-quarters. Prior to 1927 all 16 ga. guns were delivered with two and nine-sixteenths chambers.What's the s/n of this gun? It'll tell you it's age.

wundudnee

Check a fired shell to see if the brass has swollen any. The chamber wears just inside the receiver end. I had an early model 12 20ga. do this and I took it to Simmons to fix, got a card back in a month "Gun to worn to repair" It wouldn't eject about 1/2 the time.

laxcoach

Suggest you reply to rick_reno's post. I have a neighbor who has an immaculate M12 20 ga. which has the "short chamber". You can get the shorter shells from a couple sources, or have a gunsmith ream the chamber to 2 3/4".

Mr. Lobo

Thanks to all that responded. rick_reno:The S/N is 29792. The last Pat. date is July 5.12.1910. It seems like there are too many days in the date. Saxonpig:I'm sure you are partially correct in assuming the gun was a little dirty. I had not shot it in 18 years. The bore was clean and I did shoot a little Stealth on it prior to shooting.wundudneeThe casing was not swollen actually the bore is in excellent condition.

rick_reno

Wow. That's an old M12 - in 1913 they started production with 5309 and ended with 32424. You've got one of the first ones made, manufactured near the end of 1913. That gun listed in the 1913 catalog (the earliest one I've seen) for $24 retail, $30 list and $5 for a matted rib. They'd change the barrel markings as needed (more patents, etc.), near 32,000 they started adding them. I'm assuming yours is one of these that they started adding patents too, but didn't get them all added. There are patents associated with this model for both July 5th, 1910 and July 12th, 1910 (there are others - I've only listed those two since they appear on your gun). What's the barrel length? Many of these and the 16 ga. guns were sent off to Winchester and various gunsmiths to have the chambers lengthened - it's unusual to see one that is still original. There are some rare combinations, I'd hate to see you get the chamber lengthened if it was a rare and original gun. I think they're the best shotgun built - ever. I have had a lot of them - my wife would say I still have a lot of them. I really like them and only stopped using one for all my shotgunning last year when I picked up a Benelli Nova. The only problem with them is they built them too good and they last forever.All 12 ga. guns were chambered in two and three-quarter inches.

Mr. Lobo

I will check on barrel length tonight when I get home. Any idea of the range of value on this old gun? I would never sell it but it's always nice to know.[This message has been edited by Mr. Lobo (edited 01-04-2002).]

MIKE WISKEY

I HAVE WORKED ON SEVERAL M-12 20 GA. GUNS AS WELL AND HAVE LENGHTENED CHAMBERS ON THEM, IF YOU DO THIS YOU MAY HAVE TO LENGHTEN THE EJECTION PORT AS WELL (DEPENDS ON BRAND OF AMMO). MIKE

oldfriends

Concerning the "short" chambers. My Grand Dad had an old Cannon Breech single barrel in 12 GA. It was originally chambered for the short shells. He said he used a valve grinding stone to lengthen the chamber. It shot very well as I won a lot of turkeys and hams at trap shoots with it. I have three Cannon Breech shotguns (trying to corner the market Anyway, one of them has the short chamber and the other two have 2 3/4 Inch. (If anyone has one of these old wall hangers in any condition, I would be interested in what you know about it and be interested in buying.) Back to the short shells. I didn't know Granddad had lengthened the chamber on his. I took one of mine out to a shoot. It kicked hard and the shell crimp looked funny when I shot it. When I mentioned this to my Granddad, that is when he told me about what he did. That was the first I had heard of shells being shorther than 2 3/4 inch for anything other than the 410.

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Life is Tough!It's Tougher if You're Stupid

Mr. Lobo

rick_reno:The barrel is 24 inches long and says NICKEL-STEEL. Thanks again to all of you for your help!MIKE WISKEY:I guess that I forgot to say that the ejection port is where it hung up. Could this mean that it is already chambered?[This message has been edited by Mr. Lobo (edited 01-03-2002).]

rick_reno

How are you measuring it? 25 inches was a catlog listing - I don't see anything showing a 24 inch barrel. They dropped that "Nickel Steel" marking around 1931.You've got three of them! You're well on your way to being a collector. Keep them, they're very durable guns.

Mr. Lobo

rick_reno:It would measure 25 inches if I went from end to end. I started to measure from about 1 inch from the reciever end of the barrel because that looked like where the barrel started. There is a 1-inch area that is larger than the barrel where it connects to the receiver.I have other questions regarding my collection that I do not feel comfortable discussing on a public forum. If you feel like answering some more questions please send me your e-mail address to jeyerman@tfb.com[This message has been edited by Mr. Lobo (edited 01-04-2002).][This message has been edited by Mr. Lobo (edited 01-04-2002).][This message has been edited by Mr. Lobo (edited 01-04-2002).]