H.S.B.&Co. Anyone heard of this company?

winged 1

This is on a double barrel 12 gauge I own.Also Rey-o-noc under the H.S.B.&CO.I was told Hibbard,Spencer.Bartlett.I would like to get a set of barrels.One of mine is blown up in a mishap during my greatgrandfathers time.Any help or suggestions would be greatly appeciated.

winged 1

BTT I need your help shotgun experts.Thanks in advance.

nord

HS&B became Western Auto in latter days so I'm told. Correct spelling is Rev-O-Noc. Spell it backwards and you get Conover... One of the founders I guess.The gun is most probably a Crescent. It's not worth new tubes for the following reasons:1. Hardware store guns aren't really collectible unless they're in perfect condition. Yours isn't!2. Crescent creations for the hardware store trade were of generally fairly low quality.3. Even though inexpensive, there existed enough hand fitting to make a barrel interchange unlikely without a good bit of work. 4. No matter what you spend, the gun's value won't increase.

winged 1

Thanks Nord.I really wanted to shoot this old family hierloom,but it sounds like it my end up a conversation piece.

AdamsQuailHunter

Your great grandfather's shotgun was made by Crescent Firearms Company of Norwich, Connecticut. Crescent began somewhere about 1892. They were well made but utility firearms. The fact that they were well made is why many of them survive until today.Crescent Firearms Company was bought out by H&D Folsum of New York City so they could add an American made sidelock, side-by-side to their range of imported guns.Big bunches of these "hardware guns" were produced in a ton of private brands as well as in Folsum's house brand -- "American Gun Co. of NY". In 1922 the "Crescent" brand replaced the "American Gun Co. of NY" and is found on many thousands of doubles still existing to this day. The "Rev-o-noc" brand was made for Hibbard, Spencer, Bartlett & Company of Chicago."nord" and I agree to disagree--hopefully agreeably--about the Crescent made firearms. He is partial to L. C. Smith's and A. H. Fox and some others while I happen to like the old Crescent's and old Damascus barreled Ithaca's. He is correct about the value of the shotgun. You can spend a bunch of change to put it back into usable condition and it will never be worth the amount you spent to do it. If you do this, you must go into it knowing full well that you have spent the money for sentimental reasons. (Have I ever done that --- you bet. I have Winchesters, American Gun Co of NY, Ithacas, and a Belgian guild gun with Damascus barrels that belonged to family members that I have spent far beyound their value to put back into service.)There is an American Gun Co of NY up for auction on this site. Its' number is 3074146. It is not good for anything except as a "parts gun". If you place a bid on it you will probably be the only one. The barrels are armory steel not Damascus which for most people would be a plus. Yes, it is going to take some hand fitting by a good gunsmith and it is not going to be cheap. I will tell you who my gunsmith is if you don't have some one capable of doing the job. BUT, he does not get in a rush and has jobs scheduled for over a year in advance.If returned to sound mechanical condition by a gunsmith competent in older Damascus and armory steel barreled shotguns, it can still be used with light field loads. Do NOT subject this old girl to 2-3/4 magnum loads, she was never designed for it.I am glad to hear that it is priceless to you and hopefully will stay in the family whereit belongs. I have an American Gun Co. of NY that is a Damascus barreled hammer gun, and I hunt with it regularily. However, I am willing to load black powder shotshells for it and have a gunsmith who has fiberoptic equipment check the barrels at the end of every season to make sure there is no evidence of delamination in the barrels. If any evidence of delamination shows up--then I am going to have to do what you are going to have to do--look for a "parts gun" and wait for a year or so for my gunsmith to put it back in service for me at a substantial cost.[This message has been edited by AdamsQuailHunter (edited 02-10-2002).]

winged 1

AdamsQuailHunter Thanks a bunch for the info.You can bet this gun will only be passed on, as it sould be.I like yourself will probably spend the money to get it repaired.I may contact you later if I can not find a gunsmith.Thanks again.

Ozlander

AdamsQuailHunterWhat kind of loads do you shoot in your old Damascus barreled Ithaca's? Old man in San Antonio told me he shot low brass in his all the time.Ozlander[This message has been edited by Ozlander (edited 02-12-2002).][This message has been edited by Ozlander (edited 02-12-2002).]

AdamsQuailHunter

Ozlander:1. If you can see the circular "tiger-stripes" (most particular under the forearm), then it is Damascus.2. It really should be checked out by a gunsmith that has the fiberoptic equiment to see if there is any delamination evident INSIDE the barrels. If there is any evidence of delamination it needs to become a "wall-hanger" and not a shooter.3. Your profile says your an engineer. Then you should be able to grasp the concept (no disrespect intended -- simply statement of fact due to your training) that the pressure curve of blackpowder shotshells and modern smokeless powder shotshells is completely different. The black powder pressure curve is spread out over a much longer time that that of modern smokeless powder. Your going to hear that you can use "low-brass" game loads. Not so. Eventually they will cause damage to the shotgun due to the difference in the pressure curve. Will an Ithaca "Crass", "Lewis" or "Minier" blow up in your face, heck NO -- they were too well built, but eventually such smokeless loadings will damage the shotgun. (You did NOT say which one you had.) If you are going to subject any one of those three models to smokeless powder loads -- then please sell it to me, where it will be safe from such treatment.4. A safe "Cowboy Action" loading is available from L.A. Outdoors in Enterprise, Alabama. Their telephone number is (334) 347-6909. At something like $8 a box plus shipping you can't beat it with a stick, if you do not have the experience and equipment to do black powder loading as I do for my old Damascus barreled ladies.5. Winged 1 --- sorry about stepping all over your original question but this is an answer that perhaps you need to see as well.

winged 1

Not a problem.We are all among friends here, besides I enjoy the info.Good day.

Ozlander

AdamsQuailHunterIt's a 1903 Crass. In other words, all you shoot in your old guns is blackpowder type loads. I will check with L.A. Outdoors as I would like to shoot it.Thanks

AdamsQuailHunter

Ozlander:It is not "in other words" --- it is the only words. If it is not loaded with black powder, Pyrodex RS, or CleanShot, it is not going in one of my Damascus barreled ladies. Forget ClearShot --- the shot string is waaaaaay too long.One of my Crass models is at a machine shop having internal parts made. It was being shot with "low brass" shotshells when I acquired it. It was damaged by those loads and I am having it rebuilt before I use it.I mean no disrespect, but to the best of my knowledge the Crass was discontinued in 1901. If it was built in 1903, then it should be a Lewis model.I am sure that Captain Kirk will see that this thread had hit the magic number of 10 posts and have Scotty beam a lock on it. If you need addition information, then please open a new thread and I will respond to it.My best regards to both you and winged 1.