In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

.223 vs. 5.56 Reloading

SnigleySnigley Member Posts: 134 ✭✭
edited May 2013 in Ask the Experts
Guys, I know the issue of shooting 5.56 ammo in a rifle chambered for .223 had been covered many times and is not recommended. With the current prices and shortages I've deciced it's time to start reloading some of my old brass. Most of it is surplus 5.56. Question is whether or not it there are any precautions I need to be aware of loading 5.56 with a .223 die? Thanks for any feedback.

Comments

  • victorj19victorj19 Member Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes. Don't repeat my mistake by using the 223 data at the upper ranges (i.e., near max) and have some serious pressure issues. Reduce the powder weights by 10% and work your way up. For my bolt action rifle, 22 gr of Win 748 under a 50gr bullet is good.
  • SnigleySnigley Member Posts: 134 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the information. I have an AR and not a bolt action so I was hoping to hear a little AR feedback. My reloading manual makes no distinction between the two, but I would have thought the annealed necks of he 5.56 might have made a difference.
  • AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All cartridge case necks are annealed. Military brass still has the color on it while commercial brass is tumble cleaned after anneal to give it that uniforn shine. In the old days, Norma brass had the color on it--haven't bought any Norma brass in a while so don't know if it still does.

    Chamber specs are a bit different for 5.56 but .223 dies will load either. Since you're loading for an AR, there's no issue.
  • Emmett DunhamEmmett Dunham Member Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There was a resent post with pictures of the cross section of both the .223 and 5.56 barrels which in and of it self almost expains any problems, do a search. The problem is the shape and size of the two chambers are different. I don't think the brass has anything to due with any problem and when you resize it is good to go!

    Emmett
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Snigley
    Thanks for the information. I have an AR and not a bolt action so I was hoping to hear a little AR feedback. My reloading manual makes no distinction between the two, but I would have thought the annealed necks of he 5.56 might have made a difference.


    quote:Chamber specs are a bit different for 5.56 but .223 dies will load either. Since you're loading for an AR, there's no issue.

    Oh yes there is an issue, and it has NOTHING to do with shooting in an AR or bolt gun.

    We are talking about the internal case capacity difference, not an annealed neck difference. The outside dimensions of the 223, and 5.56, are the basic same, but the 5.56 has less case capacity, meaning the case walls are in fact thicker. If you use the same maximum charge listed in the 223 section, in a 5.56 case, you are looking to blow primers, or possibly more.

    When those reloading manuals say, if you change ANY component, start at 5-10% under listed starting load and work your way up, that is EXACTLY what they mean. You should NEVER start at maximum, or near maximum, even if the load is listed, and you have the exact components. Reason being, you do not have the same techniques, or equipment the ballistic labs that made those manuals do.

    Most manuals these days have two sections...one for 223, and the other for 223 service rifle, or 5.56. If your manual does not have it, I would suggest getting one that does. It will also list new powder's like the Hodgdon's new CFE 223. Great stuff.

    You done the right thing by asking here first. It most likely saved you some torment.

    Best

    EDIT 1

    Emmett,

    quote:I don't think the brass has anything to due with any problem and when you resize it is good to go!


    How many times does one have to explain, that it is a brass problem? There is a case capacity difference between the 223 Remington, and the 5.56x45 NATO. That is precisely why there is two different sections in most reloading manuals, and warnings in most other's that do not have a 5.56 section, that if using military brass, you need to reduce the load. The 5.56 case holds less powder. It is a matter of fact, not what you think.

    Best
  • AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't understand why reloaders won't weigh cases and just "assume" that military brass is thicker, of course, some is. As has been said, .223 & 5.56 has the same outside dimensions so thicker brass will be heavier. Just weigh it! And adjust your loads accordingly if necessary.
  • SnigleySnigley Member Posts: 134 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the replies guys, this is what I was looking for. I'll upgrade my loading book.
  • USN_AirdaleUSN_Airdale Member Posts: 2,987
    edited November -1
    there are no specific 5.56mm NATO reloading dies that i know of, so .223 Rem. is all we reloaders have to work with.

    i personally have over 50 years experience reloading .223/5.56mm, the difference in the two differently designated brass is so insignificant that it matters very little, i have weighed cases made by many different mfgrs. , my findings were that Reminton & Norma brass were heavier than SOME MilSpec/NATO,

    case capacity, i use "Black Sand" to determine case capacity as water is too inconsistent, one can NOT remove 100% of the water, whereas 100% of black sand CAN be removed for weighing purposes, there once more the difference is so infantesible it really makes no difference..., in my OPINION !!

    annealing: i stopped doing that many years ago, it is a waste of time..., also in my OPINION, i started a 1,000 round test batch of 5.56mm NATO LC 01, 02 brass that i have reloaded over 20 times, i have 987 of those rounds still going strong, one brass had a split neck after the second reloading, the other 12 failed after the 14th reloading, split necks !

    loading data: i will not list my loading data results, BUT ! they are far away from what every loading manual prints, i shoot exclusively MilSpec. AR-15's the chambers and barrels are proof tested way above what any sane shooter would consider safe, sooooooo, in my OPINION one could easily fill the case to the top with RECOMMENDED powder and still be in a safe range.
  • papernickerpapernicker Member Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am much newer to reloading than USN but also don't care what I am loading. Every case must match thou, no load changes at all.
  • gotstolefromgotstolefrom Member Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When I have 'enough' brass to make up another lot, I weigh the brass after it has been de-capped, cleaned, and trimmed to length. I sorted the cases by weight, etc. etc., all in search of a bit more consistency.

    It was a few years before I got around to loading for AR's . The 5.56 brass and the 223 brass generally congregated together quickly into separate classes, but not always. Not necessarily 'better' or 'not' ... just different. Definitely made a step towards consistency.

    It sounds like a PIA for any caliber, but you only do it once.
  • CheechakoCheechako Member Posts: 563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by USN_Airdale . . .i use "Black Sand" to determine case capacity as water is too inconsistent, one can NOT remove 100% of the water, whereas 100% of black sand CAN be removed for weighing purposes . . .

    I don't understand your thinking on this. What could be more consistent than water? Not only can you weigh it, you can covert it to CC if you have a mind to do that. You start by weighing the empty case, then fill it with water, then weigh it again. Subtract one from the other and you have the weight of the water.

    Simply wipe out the inside with a Q-tip and set the case in the sun for a few minutes. All of the water will be gone.

    The 5.56x45 cartridge was adopted in late 1963. If you've been loading for it over 50 years you must have started before it was adopted.

    Just sayin'.

    Ray
Sign In or Register to comment.