Smith Models 19/66 Can handle .357 loads?

NOTPARS

I realize with the advent of the automatics there is not as much interest in the older "police revolvers" as bygone days. But..... When I was an LEO, I carried a Smith & Wesson Model 19 for ten years (2 years with the Harford County, Maryland, Sheriff's Office and 8 years with the People's Republic of Palo Alto, California). While out on the Left Coast, my rather liberal department told us we could not carry .357 rounds in our, well, .357. They said it might damage the K-frame and or damage the forcing cone. While at work I carried the approved .38+p+ rounds. While away from work, I shot full loads. I never had a problem with the Smith. I rather suspected that my department, which for a long time would not put the word "Police" on our police cars because it was considered too aggressive, didn't like the image of the mighty .357. I was the second to last officer to carry a revolver. Was the issue of potential problems with the frame and or forcing cone ever put to rest one way or another? I sure hope so. Unbeknownst to my wife, I just ordered a Model 66. If Missouri didn't have this stupid five day waiting period, apply for the permit on Monday, pick it up on Monday, hey wait a minute, that is almost 8 days!!! I'd have it day after tomorrow. Any words of wisdom would be appreciated(Yes, I have an auto now, a .40 Caliber Ruger, I'm not a total dinosaur but I have noticed the tar pits around my house growing closer....)

ref44

I would only observe that S&W developed their L-frame series of revolvers for some reason. I have always heard and read that the K-frame was somewhat undersized for constant use of full-house .357 loads. Was the introduction of the L-frame political? Or was it necessary? I don't know.

AntiqueDr

The L-frame revolver might - just might - start to develop some problems with extensive shooting of full-house .357's. That was all the rage of the gun magazines c.1980 or so. I have no clue how many rounds that would be... but I imagine there have been instances (however anecdotal).Once the gun mags started making all that noise, S&W took the opportunity to introduce their mid-frame ("L") 586/686 which immediately took off. S&W made brilliant use of the gun mags badmouthing their very own product!It was and is far more of a perceived problem than an actual problem.

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S&W Man

The S&W Model 19, as well as all 357 magnums on the K frame could, repeat could, but not always have a habit of working loose when fed a steady diet of hot or LE loads. Some would work loose when eating a diet of standard loads. The 357 was a little too strong for EXTANDED use in a K frame. That is why the L frame came about. The best frame that the 357 was ever built on was the N. Some guns would do fine while others would not, no viable explination was ever developed as to why. There were even cases of K frames having cracks develope in the Forcing cone and in the cylinders with a steady 357 diet, I have one of these in my possesion(Don't shoot it anymore!). The idea that some agencies would use 38 +P+ in the guns and it would not be as bad was also kind of a farce as the +P+ were hotter than many of the 357 loads. The best way to use 357's in the K was to use 38 spls as pratice ammo and use the 357 as carry ammo. It all boils down to each indivual gun. Many, and I believe the majority, would do fine, but there were cases of problems. With the advent of all of the newer 357's available today, I would use my K frames for pratice and 38spls. I personally carry a S&W 28 daily, that is the N frame.

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The second admendment GUARANTEES the other nine and the Constitution![This message has been edited by S&W Man (edited 02-26-2002).]

AntiqueDr

Saxon, that was a maintenance problem not an ammunition problem. It took quite a while and quite a bit of neglect to get to that shape. With even sporadic maintenance there is no harm in firing .38 Spl in .357 Mag revolvers.

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S&W Man

Saxon - If you have a 357 that would not chamber 357's because of lead fouling in the cylinder, that one of two situations has occured. 1) Antique Dr was on the head and someone fed an exorbinate number of 38's thru it and never took care of it, or 2) some agency had it that used the +P+ loads instead of 357's. That is one problem with +P+ loads in a 357 that they will lead the cylinder quite a bit. Standard 38's won't tend to do that. I shoot 38's in my 357 for pratice and have no problems with 38's or 357's chambering, of course I take care of my guns and do regular maintaince and cleaning on them. There is a seeming loss in velocity using 38's in a 357 cylinder, I believe do to the losses encountered in the extra distance required to engage the rifling. I have seem no loss in performance for target pratice. All that said, I would NEVER carry any 38spl in a 357 magnum that I carried as a defensive gun. The changes in performance and reactions are not worth the difference. If I am carrying a 38 Special, it has 38 special 129gn HydraShoks, if I have a 357 magnum, it has 357 Magnum 158gn HydraShoks. The only other caliber I ever carry is sometimes my 38S&W and I use 200gn HP in it, the old British 38/200 load. I have yet to see any advantages at all to any 38 spl +P+ loads that I have seen. Standard +P loads like the HydraShok outpreform any +P+ load that I have ever seen. Also, the pressures from any extended use of +P+ in a 38 could be damaging to the gun. Basically a +P+ load is almost 357 pressures in a 38 Spl.

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The second admendment GUARANTEES the other nine and the Constitution!

Iconoclast

Gee, me and my K frame .357 never read the stories, so we've just kept sending lead launched from relatively hot handloads down range for the past 25+ years. Guess my baby is due for retirement and I'll have to rush out and buy something new . . . NOT!! Of all the handguns I've ever owned, this has always been my favorite. I have no clue how many rounds I've shot, but it has to be into the upper five figure range (maybe 50% of them .38 loads of various types), with never, ever, a hint of a problem. I will likely cry when I wear it out. [This message has been edited by Iconoclast (edited 02-28-2002).]

NOTPARS

Gentlemen, I really do appreciate the responses. They were certainlly enlightening. I was not trying to start a debate. As I said, I carried on with a department for ten years. We were not allowed to carry .357 magnum loads only .38. I had suspected that the .38+p+ load was hot. One time, outside of our city, someone hit a deer. Broke both front legs, tore off the antlers, and I think the hind legs were bad off as well. I was sent to dispatch the deer. He looke at me in so much pain I was quick to act. One round of .38+p+ to the base of the skull and he was gone in less than 3 seconds. Again, the reason I asked is that I just ordered a Moedel 66. I have always wished I had kept the Model 19 as it was such a sure shooting accurate handgun. The oldtimer who owned it before me had some work done it. The trigger pull was barely legal according to department specs. Man was it smooth. But this information does help.

NOTPARS

For S&W Man: I presume S&W means Smith and Wesson so I thought I would take the opportunity to ask your opinion on Smith pistols. I have a Ruger .40 caliber auto-pistol. Except for the bad extractor (which Ruger fixed) it fires fine and accuracy is okay (3 inches at 25 years). Buuuuuuuuuut it can be a little large and heavy for concealment. I have looked at other pistols in the .40 caliber with the idea of obtaining one that is smaller than the Ruger without going to a mini-pistol. The Beretta isn't much smaller, if, the Sigs are the right size but so expensive, and the Smiths seem to be about right. Now, I have not been able to obtain any information on the accuracy of Smith auto-pistols relative to the Ruger, Beretta, and similarly priced models in the .40 caliber auto-pistol. Do you have any information or observations as to the accuracy of Smith auto-pistols relative to competitors? Any comments are always appreciated.