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1911 A1 Frame

bullelkbullelk Member Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭
edited May 2002 in Ask the Experts
I have a 1911A1, It's serial # is 1000XXX, and it has the initials FJA on the left side of the frame, a P next to the mag release, and on the right side it has what looks like two crossed cannons stamped in a circle. It's very faint, but you can make it out a little with a mag glass. I think it's a U.S.S.& S.?? Can anyone tell me for sure.
Thanks.
Gino

"If All Else Fails, Read The Directions"

Comments

  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can't tell you "for sure" unless it is all original and you have high quality photos, since it is in the duplicate number range. However, most likely it was made by Remington Rand.

    If the gun is mixed parts, or refinished, or all you have is the frame, it should not really matter.

    Neal
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    According to the serial number your 1911Al was made in 1943. and made by Union Switch and Signal Manufacture, Book value is from 400.oo to 12,000 depending on condition.

    LR
  • bullelkbullelk Member Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks Guys,
    My book says it is a U.S.S.& S., and it does place it at 1943, and it does have a Rem Rand slide on it? What about the ordinance mark on it, on the top left of the right side of the frame. It has the crossed canons.
    I hope you didn't mind, but I wanted to get some other opinions on it. Could the slide have been replaced at one time?

    NEAL,
    I owe you an apology. I guess someone thinks I was arguing with you about the antique definitions, and I wasn't. It's just a tricky one, to me anyway. After reading it a few more times, I can see where it would relate just to replicas in Paragraph B. Sorry for any misunderstandings. That's the only way people can really learn things is by getting right into it. Thanks.

    Gino

    "If All Else Fails, Read The Directions"
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Gino, no apology is necessary; I never thought that you were arguing. I knew that you were just trying to get clarification of a very confusing definition.

    The serial # of your M1911A1 is in the duplicate # range, according to Fjestad's Blue Book; that is, the same #'s were mistakenly assigned to 2 manufacturers, leading to duplicates. The original finish on a US&S is different from that of a Remington Rand, so it should be relatively easy to tell the difference in a side-by-side comparison. However, based on the fact that we KNOW that your serial # was assigned to Rem Rand, and the fact that your gun has a Rem Rand slide, that makes it more likely that you have a Rem Rand, especially if the finish is original and matches.

    The proof P, the ordinance seal, and the inspectors initials were applied by the War Dept, and will usually be the same for guns received from different manufacturers in the same time period. The best way to tell if the finish is original is to look for burnishing within these markings with a 10x magnifier. Since these markings were struck AFTER the guns were finished, the parkerizing will be scraped away, or burnished, within areas of these markings, and some shiny bare steel will show. If everything within these markings is parkerized, it has been refinished.

    Does your gun have RIA or AA or BA stamped on the left side of the frame? This would indicate arsenal refinishing. Can you describe the color of the finish, and the barrel markings?

    Neal
  • bullelkbullelk Member Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Neal,
    Thanks for all the info. The gun was never refinished, and all the parkerizing is still in excellent condition. The only mark I could find on the barrel was a P stamped on the lug, if that's what you call it.

    So, it must be an original Rem Rand. I bought it from a retired Army Colonel that I know, and he has carried all thru WW II. I got it with the original web belt, holster, medicine pouch, magazine pouch, and three two-tone magazines still loaded with the original ammo.

    Thanks again for everything.

    Gino
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds like a great gun to have!

    One more thing---while the two-tone mags are desireable, they are not correct for your gun. The most correct mag would be marked G (General Shaver, a division of Rem Rand); also correct would be a mag marked R (Risdon contract) only or S (Scovill contract) only. They should not be too difficult to find, or too expensive.

    Neal
  • bullelkbullelk Member Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Neal,
    Thanks again, You have been a great help, and a Gentlemen.

    Gino
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