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M-16 fire control parts

DiabloDiablo Member Posts: 251 ✭✭✭
edited May 2002 in Ask the Experts
I seen M-16 fire control parts for sale. I was thinking of buying these as an investment for future resale.

If I do not own or posses any AR-15/M-16/variant, can I own these M-16 fire control parts? ...legally

Of course I would not buy or posses an Ar-15 until the M-16 fire control parts were completely out of my possesion.

When the time came to resell these parts I would inform the buyer that there are legal restrictions regarding these parts. I would try to market it to owners of real registered M-16 or other shops.

I am just trying to keep it legal.....any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!
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Comments

  • raskilraskil Member Posts: 250 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You can own both at the same time but do not install any of the fire control parts in an AR15 unless you have the proper license. The Bushmaster catalog has a good picture of comparison between the M-16 and AR-15.
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  • cpermdcpermd Member Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Above reply is incorrect.
    As long as you don't have an AR it is OK to have the parts.
    BATF can charge you with an illegal MG if you have the parts and an AR.
    cpermd
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  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    cpermd is correct on this one. You can email batf and they'll tell you the same thing.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.
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  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is all moot. You can't just convert an AR to an M16 just by substituting M16 fire control parts. It is more complicated than that.

    Buying these parts would be a waste of money. If you want to make an investment, buy a good mutual fund.

    Neal
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  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I belive you'd have to redrill holes in the right places on the lower reciever, and replace the bolt carrier, and then your in business. Theres a manual on gunbroker that I've seen being sold tells you exactly how to do it. Its not that hard to do from what I've read, just don't get caught. Feds don't do parole, when you serve time, your there your whole sentence...


    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.
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  • JudgeColtJudgeColt Member Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Doc's point is NOT moot. Whether there is some additional work required for a conversion or not is irrelevant. The ATF has ruled that possession of the required M16 parts and an AR-15 or clone constitutes possession of a machine gun.

    It is also incorrect that holes need to be drilled. They do not. All that is required is an "auto sear" device, which takes the place of the M16 auto sear (for which a hole does need to be drilled) and is held in place by the rear upper receiver lug when the two receiver parts are closed.

    Even without the auto sear, installation of the other M16 parts may result in a rifle capable of full auto fire, although not reliably because when the hammer follows the bolt, as it will without an auto sear to hold it until the bolt trips it just as the bolt closes, it does not always have enough energy to ignite the primer. There were rumors about the ATF taking an AR-15 with the M16 parts, but no auto sear, loading it with special ammunition loaded with soft pistol primers and then charging the owner with possession of a machine gun when it would fire full auto. Apparently the soft pistol primers made the rifle fire full auto when it would not with hard rifle or harder military primers.

    Beware.



    Edited by - JudgeColt on 05/22/2002 10:39:08
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  • DiabloDiablo Member Posts: 251 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well thanks for the info....but I am definite not interested in converting an AR to FA. I was just checking the owner ship legality of these parts.
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  • 74cuda74cuda Member Posts: 417 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Again, JudgeColt gives the right answers and the right advice AND he isn't trying to jack up his number of posts by posting irrelevant bull....

    Keep up the good work Judge!!....

    "In God We Trust........All Others Go Thru NCIC"

    Edited by - 74cuda on 05/22/2002 18:19:20
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  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    JudgeColt's response concerning M16 fire control parts is not entirely correct.

    BATF has not ruled that possession of M16 fire control parts and an AR-15 or clone is illegal. What they HAVE ruled (Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide BATF P 5300.4 Sect 3 p 115) is that IF M16 fire control parts are assembled on an AR-15 or clone and IF it fires full auto, it would be considered to be a machine gun. They recommend that M16 parts not be assembled to such a rifle "...to avoid violations of the NFA..."

    In addition, in ATF Rul. 81-4 (BATF P 5300.4 p 105) they have ruled that possession of an AUTO-SEAR and "certain M16 fire control parts" is possession of a machine gun (even without an AR-15 or clone). So, it appears that the critical thing is to avoid possession of an unregistered auto-sear.

    Neal
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  • Rifleman.308Rifleman.308 Member Posts: 101 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It hardly seems my place to weigh in with the likes of gentlemen who appear to spend a good amount of their free time discussing firearms on the net, but what the heck......

    Judge Colt is 100% correct. Any number of courts have held that possession of all of the parts of a machine gun constitutes possession of a machine gun itself, without regard to the weapon's assembled or disassembled state. Even though BATF guys wear black helmets and judges wear only black robes, the courts still trump the BATF everytime.

    The cases you come across tend to involve once-convicted felons who "re-up" themselves by possessing disassembled weapons. The sheer number of times this happens probably sheds some light on why they became convicted felons in the first place.

    In the words of one upstanding gun owner (who, just once, forgot his gun in a restaurant, and look what it cost him), "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time." -- Robert Blake

    BTW: This site is extremely interesting. I wish I'd stumbled across it long ago.
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  • 101AIRBORNE101AIRBORNE Member Posts: 1,252 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mr. .308,
    Interesting site. The Judge has it nailed but there is always someone
    trying one upmanship. Glad to have you aboard. Best, Steve
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  • LIKTOSHOOTLIKTOSHOOT Member Posts: 523 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Outside the legality issue, owning the parts for an investment?? Hardly see how it would be an investment, as these parts are just as cheap as other AR/M parts. Now to have a registered sear/trigger pack is another story. Nothing like paying 5K for a handfull of metal parts. Course NFA comes to mind, along with the $200.00 NFA Tax. Now these would be an investment.....how many do you want? LTS
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  • hecklerxkochhecklerxkoch Member Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    the judge is right, I actually work for the court and I know what they uphold and what they dont. Shooting a full auto looses some of its high after awile (very little!! but some nonetheless), my point is, why chance it. It seems to me that either way it could be justified, but why take the chance. Sure it's our right, but it's not worth being buba's cell * for is it??
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    While many here have made valid points of the UNCONSTITIONAL LAW ...

    I think LIKTOSHOOT had the info you were looking for ... there is no investment opportunity WITHOUT the registered auto sear ...


    =================================
    The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
    ... there are so darn many models to choose from!
    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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