Elmer's Loading for the .44 Special Ctg.

john carr

Will try to post an excerpt from Keith's book, "Sixguns", showing the original loading for the above cartridge. As you can see it was a 250 gr Lyman #429421 lead semi wadcutter and also the hollow pointed version at 235 gr. over 17.5 grains of 2400. Sorry I couldn't show the scan. I better review the posting guidelines.

Hawk Carse

The old NRA Handloading book showed that load as somewhere in the high 20,000s range, but Phil Sharpe only rated it around 13,000.
Now Lyman shows 18 grains as a starting load for .44 magnum at over 30,000.

Interesting how times and methods change.

charliemeyer007

I know BlueDot has change from Hercules to Aliant. Crusher methods don't catch the spikes like a strain gauge.

truthful

But Elmer's load was in the shorter 44 Special case, not the magnum brass. With the longer case he'd often stoke them with 22 grains of 2400.

I was never able to get anywhere near the accuracy that Elmer claimed with either case and hot loads behind a semi-wadcutter or Keith style bullet. I always found the round nosed bullets to be much more accurate. I think the front band of the SWC or Keith bullets got deformed going through the forcing cone.

rufe-snow

quote:Originally posted by truthful
But Elmer's load was in the shorter 44 Special case, not the magnum brass. With the longer case he'd often stoke them with 22 grains of 2400.

I was never able to get anywhere near the accuracy that Elmer claimed with either case and hot loads behind a semi-wadcutter or Keith style bullet. I always found the round nosed bullets to be much more accurate. I think the front band of the SWC or Keith bullets got deformed going through the forcing cone.



You were using the wrong technique. I remember Elmer explaining how he made that 600 yd shot on the Elk. Walked them in, like he was ranging a 60 mm mortar.

john carr

Originally posted by Hawk Carse
The old NRA Handloading book showed that load as somewhere in the high 20,000s range, but Phil Sharpe only rated it around 13,000.
Now Lyman shows 18 grains as a starting load for .44 magnum at over 30,000.

Interesting how times and methods change.

Yes someone corrected me on another forum when I gave the pressure of the load at 21,000 cup which is what Keith's friend at Peters Cartridge Co. tested it at in a pressure barrell. He said that modern tests now rate it at over 26,000 cups. I just can't see Keith running those kinds of pressures in the old First Generation Colts.

iceracerx

Didn't he and Skeeter do that w/ Prairie Dogs too? IIRC that was @ 1/2 mile or 880 yards.


quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
quote:Originally posted by truthful
But Elmer's load was in the shorter 44 Special case, not the magnum brass. With the longer case he'd often stoke them with 22 grains of 2400.

I was never able to get anywhere near the accuracy that Elmer claimed with either case and hot loads behind a semi-wadcutter or Keith style bullet. I always found the round nosed bullets to be much more accurate. I think the front band of the SWC or Keith bullets got deformed going through the forcing cone.



You were using the wrong technique. I remember Elmer explaining how he made that 600 yd shot on the Elk. Walked them in, like he was ranging a 60 mm mortar.

richarda

Another variable - Elmer would have been using the old 'balloon head' .44 Special cases, which had a greater capacity than today's true solid head cases; this would have acted to reduce pressures somewhat.

john carr

He recommended 18.5 grains 2400 in the balloon head cases.

v35

Keith recommended 17.5 grains with 235 GRHPGC or 250 gr bullets.
I've used the 235grhpgc in a 4" Charter Arms.
The 250 is too severe for me.

tsr1965

One thing you folks had better remember, is that Elmer, God rest his soul, destroyed many a good six guns, finding this data. If it is not a 44 Magnum, don't try to make it into one, lest you travel the same path.

quote:You were using the wrong technique. I remember Elmer explaining how he made that 600 yd shot on the Elk. Walked them in, like he was ranging a 60 mm mortar.

Simply stated, Elmer Keith, was a first class marksman with a handgun, and first class experimentor/wildcatter. You never know unless you try, and practice at trying. That said, I have seen several different variations of this story, some proclaiming an Elk, some say Mule deer. There is a big difference in target size there. Howevewr, all the stories I have seen, claim this was a last ditch effort to stop a previously wounded animal, from a slow agonizing death. It should NEVER be attempted by an ethical hunter, as a first shot type of thing.


quote:Didn't he and Skeeter do that w/ Prairie Dogs too? IIRC that was @ 1/2 mile or 880 yards.



This, from my experince with handguns, would be totally experimental. There is NO WAY, this can be done consistantly with an objest as a target you cannot see over your sights.

Best