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dHeffley

sandman2234sandman2234 Member Posts: 894 ✭✭
edited March 2002 in Ask the Experts
I saw your reply concerning the illegal magazines lesson given by your CHL instuctor. I was just wondering if you can get your hands on the "statue" that covers that. I see several problems with the list. one would be a five round magazine, ruger to be precise, that fit the mini 14. Mate that to a 120 round drum that fit the m-16. According to you, I now have an illegal mag. two would also fit the same item. three would also fit the same mag six would also fit the same magazine Both magazine were preban mags. What about the m-16 mags that are used in the AR-15? What about the thirty round Ceiner mags that were originally for the thompsons, and converted to fit the mini-14? But wait, those are .22 conversion mags, which were made for the .45 thompson machineguns. That would be illegal also, using a .22 mag in a .45 gun. Not to mention all the .22 conversion kits for the .45 pistols, the 9mm, and the .40's.And what about the grease guns mags, weren't they originally for another gun? The list goes on and on. And last time I checked, the mags were still available. Either your sources were wrong, or a lot of folks are in pocession of illegal mags. A small piece of your reply follows.1 A low cap mag that had been modified to hold more than 10 rounds.2 A homemade or custom mag that would hold more than 10 rounds.3 A mag designed for use in a weapon that was modified to fit another weapon.4 Any mag marked LEO, GOV, or any combination of the above.5 A mag that was illegally imported from another country.6 Any mag that was used in a weapon it was not intended for I am not trying to start any trouble, I am just trying to understand a law like that. Thanks, Sandman2234
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    Since you were looking for statutes, I just thought I'd toss in this site for anyone who wants to bookmark it for reference, it has some interesting stuff on hi-cap mags and related topics. They are opinion letters from the ATF. http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/law.html These laws, and what you can and can't do are very confusing. It's been a while since I looked through it all and may not remember correctly, but as I recall, one letter from the ATF on this site says you can modify a magazine to fit another firearm as long as it will still work in the firearm it was originally intended for. However, it's illegal to take a 20 round 9mm mag and turn it into a .40 mag by modifying the feed lips. But guess what, some stock .40 ten round mags will hold over 10 9mm rounds and function fine in a 9mm. Many magazines designed for one firearm have been modified to fit another. One that comes to mind that is pretty common is Madsen SMG mags that have been modified to fit the M11/9. I would assume they would only be legal if they were so modified before the ban. But how on earth could they possibly tell, unless someone confesses. Looking through all these ATF letters makes my head hurt after while, but it's interesting if you don't overdo it.
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  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000 ✭
    edited November -1
    sandman,I do still have his phone number. I will try to call him Monday and see if he can give me the details. The stuff he was telling us was not in the Texas 2000 Laws that we were studying during class, so they must have been a federal law. I'll see what I can find out.
    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
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  • sandman2234sandman2234 Member Posts: 894 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks, I appreciate both of your responses and the trouble it takes to do that.. I learn more and more each day as I sit in front of this computer. In fact, just learned that a High Standard Derringer when placed in a wallet holster becomes a class III weapon. And if you don't have the AOW permit ($5.00) and a bunch of paperwork, you are in violation of the law. Shocked me, as I have the derringer, but had never bought the wallet, but had thought about it. Pocession of both is ok, as long as the gun is not in the wallet.(That information is in the link Boeboe posted)
    Have Gun, will travel[This message has been edited by sandman2234 (edited 03-02-2002).]
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    Sandman,One of the terrible things about the ATF is how they can change their minds on things. For example, it was brought out on this board that they suddenly decided all those thumbhole stocks could be considered pistol grips.I know you read one opinion letter they wrote on possession of the derringer and wallet holster at the same time, but I think if you look down the listing, there is a later opinion letter on derringers and wallet holsters. It appears they decided to change their minds several years later.The ATF can issue one opinion and then suddenly change their minds, it seems at will. If you really want to get a headache, consider this letter and, following their logic, how dangerous their logic can become.____________________________________________DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS WASHINGTON, DC 20226 OCT 19 2000 903050:GKD 3311/O-697Dear Mr. Bardwell:This refers to your letter of June 29, 2000, asking if theexternally threaded front sight base of Romanian manufactured AK-74rifles would be considered to be a "threaded barrel designed toaccommodate a flash suppressor." You state in your letter that thethreading on the Romanian front sight base is unlike that of AK-74rifles manufactured in other countries. You further state that, tothe best of your knowledge, the Romanian producers did notmanufacture a flash suppressor for their AK-74 rifles.If there are no flash suppressors manufactured having a threadingcompatible with the Romanian AK-74 muzzle threading, then itfollows that the described rifle would not have a "threaded barreldesigned to accommodate a flash suppressor." However, should aflash suppressor become available in the future that has athreading compatible with the Romanian front sight base threading,then the rifle would be considered to have a threaded barreldesigned to accommodate a flash suppressor.We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us. Sincerely yours, [signed] Curtis H.A. Bartlett Acting Chief, Firearms Technology Branch____________________________________________Think about that. Are they saying if one guy were to build one flash supressor that would fit the described AK74 (and it is probably legal to manufacture the flash hider that would fit) it would mean all such AK74's then become assault weapons, and as such, illegal?If one anti-gun activist built a flash supressor that would fit the Romanian AK74, could he successfully outlaw all such Romanian AK74s?[This message has been edited by boeboe (edited 03-03-2002).]
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  • sandman2234sandman2234 Member Posts: 894 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    That is what I get out of the letter. I am not up on those guns, but if I owned one, I would be sweating somebody building that piece with the correct thread pattern. Thanks for the link, I sat down and read a lot of the letters, and will probably read some of the over and over, trying to understand them.
    Have Gun, will travel
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  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000 ✭
    edited November -1
    Sandman,I was able to get in contact with my instructor today, and he stands behind what we were taught. He is a Texas Ranger, and said they are required to check weapons used in self defence for those modifications as well as the others he taught us, such as trigger group modifications. He said some of the issues were opinions of the ATF, and some were opinions of the Texas Attorney Generals office. None the less, he said the weapon would be examined for those modifications, and the user prosecuted under felony charges. Along with that, our CHL permit would, of course, be revocked.He did say that small police departments probably would not look for these modifications, but if a CHL holder was involved, the Rangers would probably do an investigation for the state and find the modification. They would then step in and press charges in the name of the state.I'm no lawyer, but I'm going with what he said.
    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
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