FOR S & W MAN

NOTPARS

I am presuming that your handle has to do with Smith & Wesson. If so, maybe you can help me. I have a Ruger K944 (stainless .40 caliber) which is a nice gun and all, but, when it comes to concealment, it weighs a ton and is hard to hide. I don't plan on getting rid of it, just supplementing my, uh, collection. Anyway, Smith makes several auto-pistols in .40 caliber that are significantly smaller and ideal for concealment. Here's the problem. They are expensive relative to other auto-pistols (the CZ-75 and the smaller Berettas) and I didn't want to pay what Sig's sell for. Also, I have been told they are "not that accurate." I always define accuracy in terms relative to similar pistols (price range and materials they are manufactured from). Do you have any opinions or observations you can share on this? Other folks are welcome to join in. You won't offend me by agreeing or disagreeing with anything I have posted. I take what I read here seriously and, on several occasions, found the advice to be right on the money. I won't be making any sort of decision for a while so I have plenty of time to weigh the facts.

S&W Man

Let me preface what I say with this. I am a wheel gun man. I believe in the revolvers. So my expertise in the Autoloaders is not great. With that said here is what I believe. First the Sigma line is GARBAGE. Other than that, most of the S&W autos are good and perform well. When comparing autos, most people will look at what they see tham do and how they feel to them. I have seen tests where the Smiths were rated as well as any other gun and tests where the Smiths were badmouthed. Personally, I have a 59 that performs flawlessly and is extremely accurate. BUT, as with any autoloader, manytimes the ammunition is more important than the gun. What functions and preforms well in a Smith may not in a Glock and what does well in a Glock may not in a CZ. I believe that the Smiths are comprable to any other auto loader on the market. Personally, I would not have a S&W Sigma, nor for that matter could you give me a Glock. Another factor to consider is that the smaller the gun, normally the shorter the barrel. Also, normally, the shorter the barrel, the more accuracy you give up especially at longer distances, say anything beyond 15 feet. S&&W'w are also a little pricey I will agree. When putting price into the equation, many times a less expensive gun will do just as well. As far as comprabley pricaed and made guns go I would put the S&W's against any others, but that is my opinion. The dmaller Barretas and the CZ-75 are both good guns and definately less expensive. If price is a question, than I would probably look at the Barettas, the CZ and even some of the Taursus, they are all good and fairly well comprable. Many times personal preference and cost will be the deciding factor.With autoloaders the best option is to find a good line that fits well to your hand, you are comfortable with, and one that you can handle well. If possible try a few different ones at a renge and seehow they work for you. Than find the ammo that preforms best. I would put the main line S&W's on the same par as most of the well known guns. There are a few better and some worse. Personal preference can sometimes be more important than who made them. I am personally looking for a S&W 4506 as a carry gun. Also, and there is a lot of discussion on this, I believe that the 9mm in a autoloader is too small for self defense. (Guys, I am not meaning to start an arguement here.) The balastics on them are not good enough for me and I personally know of a case where a LEO hit a perp 8 times in the torso with 9mm HydraShoks and the cops dog took the perp down. I also have a article, from an older S&W catalog when 9mms were the rage, where their expert says that anything less than a 38 special is took small, including the 9mm. That is why I am looking for a 45ACP for carry when I carry an auto. I would look for a 45ACP or a 40S&W in a good gun and S&W has good ones in both. Hope that helps. If you have any specific questions email me at 38spl@kconline.com

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The second admendment GUARANTEES the other nine and the Constitution![This message has been edited by S&W Man (edited 03-05-2002).][This message has been edited by S&W Man (edited 03-05-2002).]

Piadea

Do't let anyone tell you that Smith Autos don't shoot. They made one bad one, the sigma, but the rest are good performers. I like the 4013 myself. It's flat,easy to carry, shoots straight and never jams.

bhayes420

I carry a S&W CS-9, and love it. Would prefer a CS-40 for carry, but that caliber is just too much for my wife to handle, and as she carries the same gun, I went with the 9mm just to be compatible. I agree that the sigma line is junk, but I love any other S&W model. This is just mho....but I think they make some of the best handguns on the market. And now that they have been sold, I will be in the market for something new just to support the new ownership.

TeleDetective

I'm shooting my mouth because I can- I carried a S&W 3913 in 9mm for years as a LEO. No problems, one complaint. The S&Ws in .40 look like a slightly larger version of the 3913 and I would say if your happy- good, get it, be happy... have you considered the Glock 23, though? It weighs about 7 oz less than S&Ws w/a 4" barrel; it has the same capacity and is slighty shorter overall than the 4" barreled S&Ws. And, no suicide switch... (that should get a response from someone, he he he) I bought a new G23 for just over $500 all said and done which places it in the same price range from what I see on GB, maybe less.Cheers[This message has been edited by TeleDetective (edited 03-05-2002).]

NOTPARS

For S&W Man: Thanks a million for your response. I really appreciated it. Sometimes I ask these questions at gun stores and sometimes from dealers at gun shows. I don't want to paint them all with the same brush, but sometimes I get conflicting and vague answers and other times I have had them answer in a sarcastic way as if business was so good they didn't need to be bothered with my questions. Anyway, I am in the over 40 crowd. I love the outdoors and do as much hiking as I can. I say its to keep in shape. I am also a high school teacher. I think being outdoors in the woods far from people helps maintain my balnace after dealing with kids all day. Some if not many of the State parks I hike do not allow firearms. I hike alone, I never see rangers, I see evidence of teens, and in some people have been raped and or robbed. So, and no one notices, I hike with a "friend." That friend has been in the .380 caliber and fits in a fanny pack. As everyone knows, the .380 isn't the best defensive firearm. My dad says if I had to shoot someone with it, I would just make them mad. My Ruger in .40 caliber is just too large to carry in a discreet manner once warm weather sets in. This was the reason for my question. I have been thinking about a 5 shot .357 revolver. But I already have three .357's as it is ( a Ruger Security Six with 6 inch barrel, a Ruger GP-100 with 4 inch barrel, and a Smith Model 66 in 4 inch which is on the way). Soooooooooo, I was kind of thinking about a smal .45 or a Smith & Wesson auto in .40 caliber. The Smith would fit in the pack almost as well as the .380! I was an LEO for ten years (done in by one too many car crash, not my fault, and subsequent operations...but I can still walk). Because of what I saw as a cop, I have never considered a 9 mm. They work on people like me but don't have the same impact on drug crazies, drunks, and so forth. Again, thanks for the intel. It will help me make up my mind.

NOTPARS

For SaxonPig: Thank you for "eavesdropping." This is the one forum where I learn so much valuable information. I like to get different opinions, weigh them, evaluate them, and then make a choice. The advice I have received on this forum has been great! I too am conservative and I love old-fashioned wheel guns. This is why I am picking up my new Smith & Wesson Model 66 Saturday. I do an awful lot of hiking in the woods and am usually alone. Part of the reason is I am one of these rare birds that likes the cold and angry weather. After school, if its snowing, sleeting, or raining cats and dogs, I race home, change clothes, and head off to the woods for a 4 to 6 mile hike. The nastier the weather, the more I like it. Some or many of these parks don't allow the possesion of firearms. Yet, you'll never see a ranger, you'll find evidence of big teenager beer parties, and in some rapes and robberies have occurred! I am protected in as inconsipuous manner as possible. This means a .380 auto. I want something larger. My Ruger K944 .40 caliber is a bit big and heavy once warm weather hits. Sooooooooo, I am trying to decide between a small 2 inch 5 shot .357 revolver or a compact auto in .40 caliber (I like the Para Ordnance but they ain't cheap). Anyway, as always, I appreciate your input as you all will help me make up my mind!

NOTPARS

For Piadea, Thanks for your post. As I told S&W Man, I visit lots of gun stores and ask similar questions. Sometimes I get a sales pitch and other times I get conflicting and vague information. I bought the Ruger K944 because I have always shot Rugers. It seems like a fine auto but is a bit large and heavy when it comes to any kind of concealed carry. That is what started me looking at Smiths. I went to gun stores looking for small concealable autos. Most of the Berettas that I like, 92 series, aren't that small. The Sigs seem to fill the bill but the price! I have a new Smith catalogue and I like one model in particular (I can't remember the exact model numer but it is a stainless steel .40 in compact size). I want to get a price on that and I'll let you know what I think!

NOTPARS

For bhayes420: Thanks for the input, it really helps. I'll have to check the CS line as I really like the .40. Again, I am looking for the bigger caliber with concealment as a criterion.

NOTPARS

For TeleDetective: Hello and thanks for the intel! I was an LEO for ten years. One too many crash, and subsequent operations, put me out to pasture. I carried a Ruger Security Six and then a Smith and Wesson Model 19 for ten years. I was the second to last officer in my department to carry a revolver. It had been "worked on" was smooth and accurate. Yeah, I agree, I like the .40 caliber and will be checking out the model you listed. By "suicide swich," do you mean a decocker? Do the Smith autos come with decockers or that as a an option? Are the Smiths capable of single and or double action or double action only? Anyway this information gives me more guidance and will help a lot.

rhmc24

Your criteria of compact, light weight and low price describes the KelTec.