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Legal question: definitive answer sought!! Please

cpilericpileri Member Posts: 447 ✭✭✭
edited June 2002 in Ask the Experts
Plese help, that is.
This was inspited by a previous lively thread.
Ok.
First off: Man, i am getting reeally angry about this!
Let's see: the parts kits are for sale- legal no problem.
the blank receiver tubes/plans are available (and intended for making dummy tubes)- legal no problem.
In order for a guy to make a wall hanger, he needs both (or at least the plans for the tube). Sure, agreed.
But, possession of both (even dissassembled into pieces all over theplace) is felony?
Because you MIGHT make an illegal subgun? You can now be prosecuted for something you MIGHT do?

Ok, so here's the legal question; and I need a definitive answer (and reference if possible): Is possession of both a smg parts kit and an unfinished receiver tube at the same time a crime?

If it is true, forget it. I'm ditching this project. I'll just grease up the parts kit (no sense in returning it for 25 bucks) and throw it in my junk box. How, ffff....friggin frustrating?



___________________________
God, Guts, and Guns: keeping America Strong for 200 years.
(sig about Clinton's talk show changed, though I thought it was pretty creative without overt vulgarity)
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Comments

  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Although I had legal training, I don't consider myself qualified to answer. But for something with the potential downside of this matter and the murky state of the regs, I would recommend you consult someone who is fully conversant with the details of the issue, rather than seek it on a BBS. Where it's apparent you don't know an attorney with this expertise, I would suggest you contact the NRA for data &/or a reference. The whole business sounds like BS, but that truly is the core of the whole slate of 'gun control' regs - BS.
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  • mballaimballai Member Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Even if it weren't illegal, someone who has a law degree without the brains to use it but the ambition to apply it anyway, could get you temporary accommodations in the graybar hotel. When in doubt, don't go there.

    If you think about it, the LE only stamp on a hi-cap magazine has no bearing on its practical use, but you can still be branded a criminal for its ownership as a civilian. Machiavellian gun laws do not apply logic or reason to their existence. Steer clear if you think you can get in trouble for their use.

    Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead
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  • lrarmsxlrarmsx Member Posts: 791 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It is my understanding that you usually make dummy, non-functional, display guns, you are supposed to use a receiver that "could not" be actually made to ever be used. Hence many receivers must be made out of PVC or aluminum, or something similar. They need to be of a material that could not be used to make a real receiver. Something that could not hold up to actual pressures from firing. There is no need for strength in a dummy or display gun, it need only "look" the part. So these dummy steel tubes are, for the most part, offered for the purpose of building an illegal weapon. It is true that someone could build an non-functional display peice out of one. But if it is only for display, why does it need to be made from steel. Unfortunately there is a lot of stuff offered for sale at one place and/or another that if combined or even possessed at the same time can be a violation of federal law. I bet the places that sell the stuff will be happy to take your money, but won't be standing there next to you when you go to court and have to explain your situation.
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The "legit" places that offer "Dummy Recievers" or "Dummy Guns", such as IMA ( www.ima-usa.com ) often make them out of solid stock, so that the exterior only LOOKS real ... the down side is they are not cheap ... for instance, a Display MP44 (the Original Assault Rifle) is $799, made up with a solid aluminum receiver and original parts ...

    For display weapons, have you concidered Air-Soft? The electric models are still fairly expensive but look genuine, right down to the weld beads ... here's a pic of my electric Tokyo Mauri MP5, and it really shoots in full auto and everything! They are abput 1/2 the price of "real" dummy guns, completely legal in all non-communist states! (I think only one state has outlawed some models) AND no fourm 4473!



    =================================
    The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
    ... there are so darn many models to choose from!
    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • IAMACLONE_2IAMACLONE_2 Member Posts: 4,725
    edited November -1
    FOR A DEFINITIVE ANSWER CALL NFA BRACH TECH SERVICE @ 202-927-8330,
    THEY WILL TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT YOU CAN & CAN'T DO DO. THEY ARE GOOD PEOPLE & WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS. CAN BEAT GETTING YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED FROM THE HORSES MOUTH. PS. THEY CLOSE @ APX 330 EASTERN TIME CALL EARLY!
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  • cpilericpileri Member Posts: 447 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I called the BATF. They said it was "alot of grey area" and for specific answers, I need to write them. So I figure I'll pen up a letter and let you guys know what they say.
    C-

    ___________________________
    God, Guts, and Guns: keeping America Strong for 200 years.
    (sig about Clinton's talk show changed, though I thought it was pretty creative without overt vulgarity)
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  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Even if BATF says its legal, that doesn't mean that possession of a non-working , even toy, machine gun won't get you into trouble. I've seen this sort of scenario happen twice here in Maryland:

    Husband and wife separate, tension grows. Wife decides "I'll fix him good." Wife phones police & says husband has "illegal automatic weapons". Police obtain arrest, search & seizure warrant. Police break down husband's door at 3:00 am, arrest him and seize all guns, ammo, reloading components, household chemicals. Husband's photo in handcuffs makes morning paper. Lawyer demands $10K retainer to defend him. Husband loses job. When husband finally appears in court, police "expert" admits nothing illegal was found. Husband is released, but is now thought to be criminal by neighbors. He is out a front door, a job, and has legal bills now approaching $15K; police refuse to return his guns, and he can't afford to pay the lawyer more to recover them.

    But, at least he knows that he is "right" and everything he did was legal.

    Neal
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  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That's right Carl, write the BATF and ask about owning Sten receiver tubes--get on their little list...

    Joe
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  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Call me paranoid, but I've always felt that machine gun "kits" were
    fishing expeditions for the BATF. Semiauto guns are being banned from
    import, but full auto components are being sold for a song? Just a bit fishy IMHO. I've heard that buyers of the .50 caliber gun kits
    are now being contacted about their "illegal" activity. Watch out!!!
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  • IAMACLONE_2IAMACLONE_2 Member Posts: 4,725
    edited November -1
    RE:ATF - IF ITS WORTH DOING, DO IT RIGHT!
    KEEP YOUR LETTER TO THE ATF & THEIR RESPONCE, WITH THE WALL HANGER!

    BUILD THE WALL HANGER IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE INSTRUCTIONS, BY THE LETTER.

    IF ANY QUESTIONS ARISE, YOU HAVE YOUR PROOF!

    THEN IF YOU DECIDE YOU WANT TO SELL THE WALL HANGER, YOU HAVE PROOF OF ATF ACCEPTANCE/APPROVAL.

    AVOID ANY NIGHTMARES, DONT BUILD UNTIL YOU GET THE ANSWER BACK FROM THE ATF & GET THE PROPER PAPERWORK BACK.

    IF YOU FOLLOW THEIR INSTRUCTIONS & KEEP THEIR LETTER, YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE ANY PROBLEMS.

    BEEN THERE & DONE THAT!,
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