In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Buyer Beware!
Bert H.
Member Posts: 11,281 ✭✭✭
This is not a factory original Winchester;
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=364624916
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=364624916
WACA Historian & Life Member
Comments
(CptK, I know this should probably be on the gen. dis. pg but I never go there, so please leave here for one day).[:(!]
WACA Historian & Life Member
This is not a factory original Winchester;
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=364624916
What's a Wincehster?[:o)]
Bert, What's the story on that one?
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
This is not a factory original Winchester;
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=364624916
What's a Wincehster?[:o)]
Bert, What's the story on that one?
Look closely at the forend stock.
WACA Historian & Life Member
I just had eye surgery, and he takes crappy pics. Long wood version?
Yes, and it is too late in the production run for that feature.
WACA Historian & Life Member
"Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee
There are Winchesters with boxes out there, but this seller seems to have them quite often.
Question, if it's a known fake description as you state then why is GB allowing it to be sold as "original" and allowing a bidder/buyer be hurt ?
This opens a whole can of worms that GB may want or not want to get involved with.
There are lots of fakes, misrepresented, and altered guns out there.
When I mentioned to a very good seller here to "research" a Nazi gun that was faked by someone stamping it with the "wrong" roll marks. Nothing was done. When I finally called it a fake, which made a $400 pistol into a $4000 pistol, My post was deleted.
I kind of think it is not the problem of the GB staff to check every sale on the site, BUT if a phoney item is seen, everyone should be able to get the info here on the forums.
This is not a factory original Winchester;
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=364624916
I expect this thread to go "poof" quickly, but what's your point?
I understand you have expert knowledge on these -- and I respect that -- but I don't understand the motivation to "out" the auction. Have you contacted the seller and he told you to "go and **** yourself"? Maybe he's making an innocent error and would appreciate you explaining what you see with that gun? Why suggest deception?
quote:Originally posted by Junkballer
Question, if it's a known fake description as you state then why is GB allowing it to be sold as "original" and allowing a bidder/buyer be hurt ?
This opens a whole can of worms that GB may want or not want to get involved with.
There are lots of fakes, misrepresented, and altered guns out there.
When I mentioned to a very good seller here to "research" a Nazi gun that was faked by someone stamping it with the "wrong" roll marks. Nothing was done. When I finally called it a fake, which made a $400 pistol into a $4000 pistol, My post was deleted.
I kind of think it is not the problem of the GB staff to check every sale on the site, BUT if a phoney item is seen, everyone should be able to get the info here on the forums.
The problem is that there are probably just as many "experts" who are wrong offering their opinions about the authenticity, or not, of items as there are counterfeit items.
"Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee
Are the boxes, hang tags ect. probably repos then too?
There are Winchesters with boxes out there, but this seller seems to have them quite often.
Yes... take a look at the end label on the box and carefully note what it says. In the year 1951, there was no "Winchester Repeating Arms Co." The reprinted owners manual has the correct company name "Olin, Winchester Western Division". Additionally, Winchester stopped listing them as a "MODEL 1894" way back in 1920.
WACA Historian & Life Member
It looks original to me. I thought Winchester made the long forearm into the early 1950s. This being a 1951, it quite possibly could have the long forearm.
I wondered when you would comment on your fraudulent sale.[:0]
WACA Historian & Life Member
quote:Originally posted by M1A762
Are the boxes, hang tags ect. probably repos then too?
There are Winchesters with boxes out there, but this seller seems to have them quite often.
Yes... take a look at the end label on the box and carefully note what it says. In the year 1951, there was no "Winchester Repeating Arms Co." The reprinted owners manual has the correct company name "Olin, Winchester Western Division". Additionally, Winchester stopped listing them as a "MODEL 1894" way back in 1920.
NOW I understand, thanks for explaining your thoughts/opinion [;)]
"Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
This is not a factory original Winchester;
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=364624916
I understand you have expert knowledge on these -- and I respect that -- but I don't understand the motivation to "out" the auction. Have you contacted the seller and he told you to "go and **** yourself"? Maybe he's making an innocent error and would appreciate you explaining what you see with that gun? Why suggest deception?
I have contacted this seller in the past, and yet he still sells fakes. He is not "innocent" of anything in regards to the faked boxed Winchesters he is selling.
My motivation is to prevent somebody from getting burned on that gun. The reason that I did not publish a diary of what is wrong with that item is simple... the seller will learn what I (and the serious collectors) can clearly see is wrong with it, and then change his tactics.
WACA Historian & Life Member
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
This is not a factory original Winchester;
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=364624916
I expect this thread to go "poof" quickly, but what's your point?
And why would you expect that?
My point is to prevent an unknowing buyer from getting burned.
WACA Historian & Life Member
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=364591723
WACA Historian & Life Member
Two proves fraud.
quote:Originally posted by competentone
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
This is not a factory original Winchester;
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=364624916
I expect this thread to go "poof" quickly, but what's your point?
And why would you expect that?
My point is to prevent an unknowing buyer from getting burned.
I appreciate your efforts, but I think the forum rules apply to the moderators too.
As "babun" comments, more than one "bad" listing suggests fraud.
There are criminal statutes that deal with issues of fraud -- I think a good bit of it is Federal Law. He is doing business across state lines, so the Feds could probably be involved. Doesn't the FBI or Secret Service have a special division that deals with counterfeit items?
Is the seller an FFL? If going after him for the counterfeiting would be too difficult, maybe someone at the ATF would want to examine if he's engaged in the business of firearms without a federal license?
At the very least, if you explain your "case" against him, with all the relevant details (you don't want to disclose here, for your reasons as stated above), maybe GunBroker administration will ban him from the auctions?
I also presume (hope) that anyone willing to pay that much for a rifle will either be knowledgeable enough to know the difference or consult with someone who is.
I also presume (hope) that anyone willing to pay that much for a rifle will either be knowledgeable enough to know the difference or consult with someone who is.
Somebody did exactly that, which is how & why I got involved.
WACA Historian & Life Member