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NIB vs 100%

RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
edited March 2002 in Ask the Experts
Is there a difference between NIB and 100%?I thought that once it was fired you could only list it as 98%.
Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself![This message has been edited by RugerNiner (edited 03-19-2002).]
Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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Comments

  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    NIB means that it has never been sold at retail. Implicit is that the gun, accessories, and paperwork have never been unwrapped or handled, and the box & sleeve are perfect. If any part is visibly degraded from the way it left the factory, that defect should be noted in the description, although technically the gun is still NIB.Once the first customer has taken it home, a gun in the same condition can only be considered 100%, or Like New In Box. Racking the slide, turning the cylinder, etc will lower the percentage incrementally.Neal
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  • JudgeColtJudgeColt Member Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most guns are test-fired at the factory, so a NIB gun will have been fired. I would challenge anyone to determine whether a gun has been just test-fired at the factory, or fired another few times after first sale. To me, a NIB gun is as the name implies: new-in-the-box. It means the gun has not been used, has its original box and all included items, such as literature, tools, etc.. A 100% gun is the same gun without the box and literature, etc.. I have guns that I would describe as ANIB, as-new-in-the-box. They have the original box and papers, but have been fired more than a few times, but not enough to show much evidence of it. A 98% gun will have some visiable wear, but not much, usually just the sharp edges, etc.. Firing a 100% gun a few times generally would not reduce it to 98% in my opinion. The percentage of finish is always a debatable issue. Who can say if a gun is 98% or 97%? When I use those numbers, it is generally just based on my gut feeling after having spent a lifetime looking at guns and judging them.
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  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was under the impression that there was NIB, 98%, 95%,and down from there. I thought these were standard NRA grades. What about these NIB Romanian AK47's. Are they really virgin? They don't say "like new".
    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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  • oldgunneroldgunner Member Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm not sure who is techincally right, but Judgecolts answer seems to make good sense to me.
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Actually, the % designation is not used by the NRA system. It is used by the Blue book. I like the % system, but all of them are a bit subjective.
    He DogWhen only the police have guns, it is a police state.
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,078 ******
    edited November -1
    If you will check Fjestad's own definition of 100%, you will see that it is almost the same as NIB. Only difference is the 100% gun was sold at retail once.100% is an as-new gun in its original box with all factory supplied paperwork and/or accoutrements.Gotta disagree with the Judge here, out of the box it can only be 99% at best.
    Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!
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  • michael minarikmichael minarik Member Posts: 478 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nunn,"Gotta disagree with the Judge here, out of the box it can only be 99% at best." You are splitting hairs; for the PURIST all "accoutrements"("A") add to the value, for a SHOOTER the "A" may not really matter all that much, mostly likely the "A" will get discarded over time and the shooter would gladly pay less for the firearm if a dealer sold'em cheaper w/o the "A"(LOL).In my opinion, for my simple mind -no comments on this- NIB & 100% mean's: regardless of who owns it...the firearm has not been fired outside of factory test firing. Dealers musta designed these PERCENTAGES for trade in value purpose's hoping to establish a market value for 'owner's' who may actually fire their guns...kinda like mileage on a car...NUNN AND JUDGECOLT, how 'bout'this: at a gun show a city boy approaches a grizzled ole' dealer asking for a value on his dad's Python, which has never been fired since it left the factory. The dealer opens the Colt gun box and tells him it's worth $1,000 according to the book. So the city boy says "ok if you want it I will sell it to you for that amount!" The Dealer says, "Sorry 'boy' it is a "used" gun...I'll give you $300 for it."[This message has been edited by michael minarik (edited 03-21-2002).]
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  • ishootblanksishootblanks Member Posts: 170 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It is like a car. With a car, as soon as you sign the title, it's a used car even if you didn't drive it out of the lot! If you take ownership of the gun, it's used even if you never fired it.
    Without the NRA, the second ammendment would already be gone!
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  • red dogred dog Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Let me get this straight. A firearm can be considered NIB only if it is owned by a dealer and not ever sold at retail?????
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  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I got this off the Internet. Grading Criteria for FirearmsThe old, NRA method of firearms grading -- by relying upon adjectives such as "Excellent" or "Fair" -- has served the firearms fraternity for a long time. Today's collectors, however, are turning away from such a subjective system. One man's "Fair" is another man's "Good!". The leading professionals in the grading of firearms now utilize what is essentially an objective method for deciding the price of a gun: THE PERCENTAGE OF ORIGINAL FACTORY FINISH BLUING REMAINING ON THE GUN. After looking critically at a few firearms, and carefully studying the Photo Percentage Grading System (starts on page 26), even the novice can soon tell whether a piece has 100%, 98%, 95%, or less bluing finish remaining. Remember, sometime an older gun described as NIB can actually be 98% or less condition, simply because of the wear accumulated by taking it in and out of the box and being handled too many times (commemoratives are especially prone to this problem). Of course, factors such as "depth" and quality of the bluing finish, engraving and embellishment, historical significance, and even the condition of the stock can and do affect the price. But the basic "condition" -- and therefore the price -- is best determined by the percentage of original bluing finish remaining. The key word here is "original" for if anyone other than the factory has refinished the gun, its value as a collector's item is greatly diminished, with the exception of rare and historical pieces that have been properly restored. Study the photographs on pages 26-64. Note how the bluing finish in certain areas of the firearm wear off first. These are usually places where the gun rubs the holster, hand or body over an extended period of time. A variety of firearms have been shown in four-color to guarantee that your "sampling rate" for observing finishes is as diversified as possible. It should be noted that the older a collectable firearm is, the smaller the percentage of original bluing finish one can expect to find. Some very old and/or very rare firearms are acceptable to collectors in almost any condition! The average collector, however, will probably never have the opportunity to purchase such a specimen. For your convenience, NRA Condition Standards are shown below. Converting from this grading system to percentages can now be done accurately. CONVERTING TO NRA MODERN STANDARDSWhen converting from NRA Modern Standards, the following rules generally apply: New/Perfect -- 100% with or without box. Not mint - new. 100% on currentlymanufactured firearms assumes NIB condition.Excellent -- 95%+ - 99% (typically).Very Good -- 80 - 95% - all original.Good -- 60 - 80% - all original.Fair -- 20 - 60% - may not be original (shootable, not very collectable).Poor -- Under 20%.
    NRA Condition StandardsThese NRA conditions listed below have been provided by the author as guidelines to assist the reader in converting and comparing condition factors to the Photo Percentage Grading System in this publication. In order to use this book correctly, the reader is urged to consult these condition standards when converting to percentages of condition. Once the gun's condition has been accurately assessed, only then can the correct values be ascertained. MODERN CONDITIONS --New -- not previously sold at retail, in same condition as current factory production. Perfect -- in new condition in every respect. Excellent -- new condition, used but little, no noticeable marring of wood or metal, bluing perfect (except at muzzle or sharp edges). Very Good -- in perfect working condition, no appreciable wear on working surfaces, no corrosion or pitting, only minor surface dents and scratches. Good -- in safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning. Fair --in safe working condition, but well worn, perhaps requiring replacement of minor parts or adjustments which should e indicated in advertisement, no rust, but may have corrosion pits which do not render article unsafe or inoperable
    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself![This message has been edited by RugerNiner (edited 03-21-2002).]
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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  • michael minarikmichael minarik Member Posts: 478 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Dictionary: NEW, adj.....NOT SECOND HAND... a gun off the shelf or a car off the lot is not SECOND HAND! USED...adj...SECOND HAND!LTS U R RIGT CAUSE U...AGREE WITH ME;ISB...you do shoot blanks..hehehehLOL....mikePaper work has to do with a paper trail for selling and taxes and all the other crap associated with buying and selling... filling out a form 4473 does not make something USED, it just means it outta the loop for tracking and taxing money....Firing a bullet makes it USED, even from the factory!
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  • JudgeColtJudgeColt Member Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I did not realize what was going on here after I posted my $.02 worth a while back.Mr. Fjestad can pontificate all he wants on this issue, but I will not accept that an unfired gun that has been sold at retail cannot be NIB. Under that theory, any gun sold at retail cannot be NIB, even if it were hermetically sealed when it left the retailer. Why stop there? Why not a gun sold at wholesale losing its NIB status? Why not when it leaves the factory? That makes no sense. "New" applies to condition, not to sale status or age. A gun that is in the condition in which it left the factory (box, papers, shipping sleeve, oil paper, guarantee card, tools, etc.) is NIB, whether Mr. Blue Book agrees or not. (I spent a couple of minutes looking for that pronouncement in my Blue Book and could not find it. It may be there, but I did not find it.)I will let the battle rage and retire from the debate from here on. (Do not hold me to that if something really gets to me!)
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  • ishootblanksishootblanks Member Posts: 170 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Fine. Take your new, never driven car and try and sell it for what you paid for it. Take your 100% new in the box gun that you never fired and sell it for what you paid for it.
    Without the NRA, the second ammendment would already be gone!
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  • JudgeColtJudgeColt Member Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK, so I did not last long in staying out! Sorry, but I cannot accept ISB's logic.There is a market curve here that ISB is ignoring. If I take a new car of some interest, put it in protected storage, and then offer it for sale in the future, at some point it will be worth more to a collector than I paid for it . If it is a Yugo, that may take a long time, but, if it is a future collectable car like a Thunderbird or Corvette, that time period will be a lot shorter. If my father had put his first new car, a 1925 Ford Model T Coupe, in protected storage, do you think it might be worth more than the he paid for it today?As LTS points out, the same thing applies to guns. I have many guns I bought new in the 1960s and 1970s that are NIB by my definition, and I would NOT be selling them for what I paid for them. Some have even been out of the box and shot a few times, but those "used" guns will pass for unfired as there is no visible effect from the firing. That is where my ANIB classification comes in. I am again going to try to let this thread die, but may not be able to. No pledge this time.
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