Need help from handloaders

bwa

I've already talked to my tool and powder manufacturers once, and the problem remains unsolved at this point. Here's what I've got:I reloaded shotshells and rifle cases in the past, but just loaded my first batch of handgun(revolver) ammo a week or two ago. I wanted a mild load, so I set the scale and measure under the starting load of 9 gr.(max. is 10 on this one), to 8.7 gr. I discovered within a few rounds that the measure was throwing an inconsistent charge, and tried to adjust it back and forth a little to get it where I wanted it. Then I realized that a little powder was sticking in the discharge tube of the measure, throwing a light charge unless I rapped it with my knuckles to get the rest of the powder out(The tool manufacturer later told me that this would settle down as the tube became coated with enough carbon to allow the powder to slide out.). After doing a lot of weighing, it was fairly clear that I had been getting charges which varied from around 8.4 gr. to 9.1 gr. or so. After loading 50 rounds I started to fire a few. The first round was perfect -light recoil, hit the center of the bull. The second round was a bit more stout, but still acceptable. But after I fired the third round the case wouldn't extract without considerable elbow grease applied to the extractor rod -a high pressure load. So what happened?I retraced my steps with the powder tools today and arrived at the same figures as mentioned above, so I don't believe even my heaviest charge could have been near enough the maximum to cause the excess pressure. I did discover that my overall cartridge length is anywhere from .020 to .035 under the length specified in the maximum load given in the loading data(I'm using bullets which don't have a cannelure, so I had to go by a diagram in another manual, which only illustrated the maximum length. Even though the specified length is printed in the loading data, I never noticed it there until today.). But the manufacturers said that with a light load, seating depth shouldn't have caused the problem(These are .44 mag. BTW). One of them asked if I might have inadvertently loaded a double charge. I suppose that that possibility exists, but I would think that the consequences would have gone beyond a stuck case if that would have been the cause. The primer really wasn't flattened very much, either.So what do you men think? I would appreciate any assistance you could give. If you need any further information, I'll try to get it posted for you quickly. I also would like to know if modern guns are designed to withstand some pressures like this without harm(I've got an S&W 29).Thank you much. Sorry I've been so longwinded.

v35

You need to use a uniform technique from stroke to stroke on the measure. If it hangs up or sticks at any point, dump that charge.Operate at least half a hopper full. Banging the hopper settles the powder, giving increasingly heavy charges. Calibrate your scale against weights.It sounds like static charges are making powder cling to the discharge tube which should be metal, not plastic.

mazo kid

Long-distance diagnosis.........hmmmmmmm. Did you fire the reloads in the order in which they were reloaded? Sounds like maybe you may have answered you own question. If the light load was the first loaded, maybe a little powder still adhered to the drop tube, that powder may have been partially dumped along with the measured charge with still more powder staying behind on the next load. . As you progressed, possibly the powder build-up in the drop tube built up and dumped randomly, causing the wide variation of weighed powder?? I would suggest weighing several thrown charges without loading them to see just how that powder measure is behaving. This may sound strange, but check the measure and drop tube for obstructions such as spider webs, etc. It's happened to me as my reloading bench is in my basement. Just my feeble thoughts on the matter. Emery

oneshy

If you had double charged, you would have noticed more than a stuck case. Some powders cause higher pressures with charges that are too light. The stuck case could have been caused by a dirty chamber or a short resize when it was de-primed. If you are worried about double charge, fabricate a round with 9gr, weigh it, and compare your other rds to it. If you live in a dry climate and it is a new charger, static elec. may be causing the weight problem. I think you'll be OK shooting the rest as long as you're sure of no double chg. I think that if you have brand new unprimed factory brass they may not all be exactly the same diameter. If this is the case, run them all through your re-size die before you prime and this should aleviate any sticking in the chamber. [This message has been edited by oneshy (edited 03-23-2002).]

Iconoclast

Agree w/ all on 2X charge - no way you'd miss it, although you might be missing a part of your anatomy. The check of loaded ammo against a standardized one will ensure that you don't have a double charge, but I wouldn't trust it 100% to pick up variations in powder charge. Brass & bullet weights can vary as well so if you should happen to have a light case & / or bullet, that could mask a heavier charge . . . or the converse. To be absolutely sure, if it were I, I would tear them down. 50 rounds is not a big deal and for me the peace of mind would be well worth the time invested. I agree w/ the other responders that almost certainly you have something causing inconsistent throws, most likely static electricity. I don't know what sort of measure you use, but my technique when using a single stage press w/ separate measure is to lift and then lightly tap the handle against the stop on the throw so that any 'sticking' particles have a second chance to drop free. I've never seen this advocated anywhere; it's simply a style I developed which seems to work well for me. I also check every round for the first 20 *at least* to be sure the weights are consistent. And at least one of every ten to twenty-five thereafter (max rounds, again, every one). Third round heavy recoil / extraction problem is most likely an excess charge - how many more are there in those 50 and which ones are they? Don't know? This is why I strongly advocate tearing them down. Won't hurt to check your brass and chamber while you are investigating as others have suggested, but my non-expert opinion is you've already diagnosed the cause.

bwa

This is all tremendously helpful -thanks. A few notes/responses, then maybe another question or two:I was assured by the powder manufacturer before I began that, with this particular powder, there would be no problem loading lighter than the starting weights. The brass was all completely resized, and the chambers are clean. There probably is some static; the humidity varies widely here -lately it's been pretty dry(and I load in the garage -no climate or temp. controls). The powder stuck both to the plastic measure and funnel, and to the metal tray which came with the scale(I tapped all of them each time until all the powder was unstuck, and it stuck less and less to the funnel and tray as more cases were loaded). I did fire the reloads in the order in which they were loaded. I also did as mazo suggested with weighing several charges without loading them(that's what I meant by "retracing my steps with the powder tools"). So I'm thinking that mazo and Saxon's theory of the stuck powder accumulating in the drop tube and being swept in with the next charge is probably the answer. I remember sensing and addressing the problem(weighing more charges) very early on as I was loading, so I'm thinking that there can't be but two or three more overcharged loads in the bunch. I wonder if the rest of you agree with oneshy or with iconoclast about firing/not firing the rest of the loads)?[This message has been edited by bwa (edited 03-23-2002).]

spclark

If you're new to reloading handgun ammo, you might want to start out by weighing each charge you throw (I let the scale settle while I seat the bullet in the case I just charged), then drop that load into a primed & ready case. This way you:1.) have an opportunity to get to know your equipment and it's limitations & quirks;2.) get the consistency you desire for determining what works best for your gun(s), shooting style, purpose, etc.;3.) avoid "double-charging" which - for me atleast - isn't a common problem with .44 Rem Mag, my personal favorite;Depending upon the powder you're using, mechanical volume measuring devices (even the good ones) don't throw consistent charges in the weight range you mentioned - particularly with non-ball powders - so you must be carefull. Ball-types like Winchester 231, 296, H110, AA7 or 9, etc. meter most smoothly though they are more subject to static sticking owing to the very small particle size being so light in weight.What powder & bullet brand, weight, & style are you using? Whose load tables are you following as reference? Whose powder measure? I ask only to gain further insight as to what's going on with your situation.Sorry I missed getting in earlier; I was reloading....

bwa

Another question: would the chambers in a new revolver cause more friction in extracting a spent case than in a well-used one? (mine is new -these were the first three rounds fired in it, aside from the factory test-firing)

bwa

SP,Thanks for wanting to help. I'm using Hodgdon's Titegroup powder, and Berry's copper-plated 240 gr. HP bullets. I've taken the load from Hodgdon's data, and am using Lee's tools.

350RemMag

Rinse the funnel and powder tube in a mix of hot water and dish soap. Do not rinse with clear, let air dry. The polimers in the diah soap will help the powder slide and not stick. You may have to do this periodically, but It will solve the problem.

badboybob

Using a loading block I compare the powder level of each 50 rounds. A slight variation won't be noticed, but a squib or kaboom load certainly will.

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PC=BS

Iconoclast

bwa, as smooth as the internal finish may appear in a new firearm, there are usually micro burrs, etc. that will smooth out over time. More noticeable in the bore, but I've seen it in revolover chambers, especially.