.38 Special 130 gr fmj

Henry0Reilly

When was this bullet a popular load? I'd never even heard of it until I noticed it on Wal-mart's shelf.

SP45

the Air Force used this in +P prior to the 9mm back in the late 70s, early 80s. that's the first I was aware of it. it was supposed to be more effective than 150 grain standard velocity.

navc130

I believe this load came out in the early 1960's. U.S. Air Force aircrews were issued S&W Combat Masterpiece .38 Special FMJ to conform to Geneva Convention rules. We qualified yearly with that cartridge thru at least 1990 and some years after.

rufe-snow

This is the stuff the military used, Henry. Use to be a lot of it around. Never knew it was +P? Supposedly they have a new load now, with a heavier bullet?

beantownshootah

quote:Originally posted by Henry0Reilly
When was this bullet a popular load? I'd never even heard of it until I noticed it on Wal-mart's shelf.

You're probably talking about this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2900353049/winchester-usa-ammunition-38-special-130-grain-full-metal-jacket

Who ever said this was a "popular" load?

In answer to the question, no these aren't new. Winchester has offered them for years, and I've shot plenty of them. They're cheap, relatively accurate, and they work perfectly fine as a plinking/target load. They're probably adequate for defense (in the sense that they're still better than .380s or such), but I'd pick something hotter with a heavier-weight expanding type bullet for that purpose, if given the choice.

On ballistics, yes these are roughly equivalent to the old USAF "M41" load, and I'm sure that's by design.

The *original* M41 load was designed to give lower recoil/lower energy for the weight saving early aluminum framed Colt and Smith and Wesson revolvers that the Air Force used. Those guns were just intrinsically fragile, and the Al frames were subject to stretching and stress cracks. So the USAF issues these "wuss" rounds, loaded to only 13,000PSI. [;)]

Later iterations of the M41 ammo were loaded to more conventional .38 pressures of about 16,000 PSI. Based on the stated muzzle velocity of 800FPS, it seems plain that these Winchester rounds are loaded to similar pressures as these "normal" M41s, and again, that's probably on purpose. This version of the M41 was the standard US military .38 special round for a long time.

The high pressure USAF version of this was the "the PGU-12/B" ammo, which was loaded to 20,000PSI, roughly the same as current +P ammo.

Henry0Reilly

Thanks for the replies.

Txs

At one time USAF pilots were issued aluminum S&W M12 revolvers, which is where their continued use of the (16,000psi/~745fps) M41 round came from. The PGU-12/B round (20,000psi/~1,000fps) began being issued in the 70's for use in the USAF's S&W M15's.

Though both are FMJ loads it's not hard to tell one from the other without referring to the packaging nomenclature.

M41 has a standard .38 Spl. RN-FMJ/Ball profile. The 12/B used this same projectile but with it seated very deep into the case. In fact, those not familiar with this round sometimes mistake them for being defective (or blanks [:0]) because only the upper third to one quarter of the bullet is visible. It looks as if it suffered a really serious setback except for the fact that the case isn't straight at the mouth. It's crimped/tapered so that it follows the bullet profile.

To my knowledge USAF was the only branch to adopt this round and issued it up until the 9mm M9's adoption.

EDIT:

I found a pic showing (L-R) a RNL 158gr, a PGU-12/B and an M41.



As I said, the higher pressure/velocity 130gr round is very easy to spot.

SP45

it's easy to tell the difference between the 150 standard pressure and the 130 +P round. the +P are shorter in overall length probably due to the lighter projectile. the earlier 150's appear to have a much larger projectile. if you put the two side by side you can easily see the difference.